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Topic: spark issue

in Forum: C3 Engines

spark issue

Posted: 10/13/07 9:17pm Message 1 of 13
Former Member
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fortlauderdale, FL - USA
Joined: 3/15/2004
Posts: 288
Vette(s): 1978 greenwood custom vette, 468 blower motor side pipes.

Sometimes hardstarting. Does not give spark to the distributor until I let go of the key ?? Is this a classic sign of something. I have checked the coil, the ign. module, the spark booster, new ign. switch, new starter, new fuse links to the starter, new ballast. Something obviously is shorting, then when I release key everything is o.k. After it finally starts, sometimes takes a while it will then start right up. This does not happen everytime, but is happening more often.

Any ideas ?




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spark issue

Posted: 10/14/07 10:01am Message 2 of 13
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fortlauderdale, FL - USA
Joined: 3/15/2004
Posts: 288
Vette(s): 1978 greenwood custom vette, 468 blower motor side pipes.
can I just run a wire from my alt + side to the coil for starting, if I do not have a spark?



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spark issue

Posted: 10/14/07 12:11pm Message 3 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
You could do that as a test, with no problems. I wouldn't recommend driving it like that, tho! The A/C "ripples" in the alt. could effect the coil output.

Sounds like you've checked everything, as I was gonna say it could be a loose wire coming from the starter solenoid. The coil gets a full 12v from the starter in "crank" mode, so the coil will have plenty of juice to fire the engine. Once started, and the key is released, there is a resistor wire that lowers the voltage to the coil to around 6-9 volts.
You may have an issue with the firewall pass-thru connector, where the fusebox bolts on. If the terminals in there get a little corrosion, or get hot and melt, it can cause many intermittent problems like this.
You may want to un-bolt that thing and take a good look inside...


Joel Adams
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spark issue

Posted: 10/16/07 8:15am Message 4 of 13
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fortlauderdale, FL - USA
Joined: 3/15/2004
Posts: 288
Vette(s): 1978 greenwood custom vette, 468 blower motor side pipes.
Joel,
starter wires are tight, I actually just replaced the starter. When I remove the fuse box what exactly should I be looking for. Is it corrosion?, and should I disconnect battery first or not necessary. If something is bad, what is the process to replace this box?
Thanks




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spark issue

Posted: 10/16/07 7:01pm Message 5 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Scott, you're not actually removing the fuse-box. If you look at the junction block, under the brake booster(engine side), in the very center of it is a small bolt, 5/16", I think. Remove this bolt, and the connector will come with it as the bolt screws out. With the connector loose from the fuse box, you can look into it to see if there is any corrosion on the terminals, both on the harness connector, and the fuse box side of the connector. Usually, if there is a sever enough malfunction in that connector, it is obvious. You'll see signs of melting, or green/white, funky stuff. Either is bad!
Sometimes, if it all looks ok, there can still be a terminal problem, such as one that is just loose, and not making contact. If you have a wiring diagram for your car, you can find the IGN wire color, and trace it thru the block, and just isolate that circuit for inspection. You may need to just tighten the female terminals so they make better contact. I've seen some problems solved just by simply dis-connecting it, and bolting it back up. It all depends on the actual nature of the problem.

Have you checked to see if the coil is getting 12v when starting at the times when it doesn't start?
It really looks likes you've checked/changed/replaced everything except the firewall pass-thru at this point, unless there is a break in the wire from the starter to the coil that is killing the 12v while cranking. Perhaps jumping to the + coil terminal when it doesn't start will verify this. We know the ign. switch is sending 12v to the "Start" terminal, because it does crank. The 12v signal for the coil comes off of this same terminal on the starter solenoid, so...no 12v at the coil would have to lead us to a problem in that wire.
Hope this helps, and is not even more confusing...


btw...since the engine is cranking, we know that the pass thru connection should be good. I'm thinking that your issue will be the wire from the starter to the coil, so, really, all of the above is just info...I don't think this wire has a fuse link in it, but I would need to go look at the diagram...


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

spark issue

Posted: 10/16/07 7:30pm Message 6 of 13
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fortlauderdale, FL - USA
Joined: 3/15/2004
Posts: 288
Vette(s): 1978 greenwood custom vette, 468 blower motor side pipes.
That seems to make more sense, it always turns over just does not always have the spark. Out of town this week on business but when I get home I will check it out. I have the wiring diagram so I should be able to identify the wire to the coil.
Thanks for the info.




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spark issue

Posted: 10/22/07 2:19pm Message 7 of 13
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fortlauderdale, FL - USA
Joined: 3/15/2004
Posts: 288
Vette(s): 1978 greenwood custom vette, 468 blower motor side pipes.
I was reading the manual on the mallory hyfire ignition booster and it specifically states that the coil gets its power from the booster unit and not the solenoid. When I turned the ignition on not 12 volts and when I got it to start, still not 12 volts at the coil?? Is it possible the starter is shorting the 12 volt feed from the ignition booster ? or could it be back to the switch ?



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spark issue

Posted: 10/22/07 6:59pm Message 8 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Well now, this changes everything! I wasn't aware of the Mallory connection.
Seems like there may be an issue with the "booster" not supplying voltage?

The only way the starter would be a problem is if it was still connected factory-style. If you have the aftermarket Mallory set-up, it probably does not have the solenoid feed to the coil hooked up. Don't know that for a fact, just guessing.
Mallory systems seem to have some issues with voltage fluctuations, too. They tend to fry a lot...

Do the instructions have a wiring diagram? If so, could you copy and e-mail it to me? I'm much better with visuals!


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

spark issue

Posted: 10/23/07 6:06am Message 9 of 13
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Tucson, AZ - USA
Joined: 10/7/2007
Posts: 341
Vette(s): 1970 White L-46 Air Roadster, 1971 White LT1 Coupe, 1971 Red Auto Air Coupe, 383 stroker, 430 HP, 2002 Millennium Yellow Auto Coupe
[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]
Mallory systems seem to have some issues with voltage fluctuations, too. They tend to fry a lot... 

[/QUOTE]
 
This is why our stroker has MSD, the system seems much more stable. Any high performance ignition systems can have problems, but the MSD has been good to me so far!




spark issue

Posted: 10/25/07 2:16pm Message 10 of 13
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fortlauderdale, FL - USA
Joined: 3/15/2004
Posts: 288
Vette(s): 1978 greenwood custom vette, 468 blower motor side pipes.
The mallory has a self test upon keyswitch on ( 12 volt ) and also when cranking the unit passed both, yet the car only started when I let go of the key. How do I test the ignition switch in  the column ?



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