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Topic: Starting Problems

in Forum: C3 Engines


Starting Problems

Posted: 6/21/07 7:20pm Message 1 of 13
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Chester, WV - USA
Joined: 6/1/2007
Posts: 48
Vette(s): 1975 L82 Stingray Numbers matching motor and Trans
Well my 75 will not start now... I bought the car about a  month ago and have been working on it the battery that is in it right now is bad so if you leave anything electrical on for awhile you have to jump start the car... Well the other day me and a friend went to jump her and he ended up putting the jumper cords on back wards and they sparked pretty bad... Well after correcting the problem we were able to get the car to start.
 
Now two days later it will not start at all.. At first it just like clunked really bad and after going under the car the starter had no shims and wasn't aligned to the flywheel very well...  So I stopped messing with it for the night and hooked up my trickle charger to charge up the battery good and strong...
 
Well I tried to start her up about an hour ago and it wouldn't even crank as soon as i turned the key the seat belt and door ajar lights got really dim and the seat belt buzzer got really weak. Shut it off tried it again same thing... So I pulled the negative terminal and came here to ask for help..
 
 
Sorry for asking so many questions guys I am 19 years old and this is the first older car I have really worked on.  I would say I am a pretty good mechanic for my age but all my work has been on newer cars and it seems like they have been a lot easier to diagnose problems on and fix up for me right now..



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Starting Problems

Posted: 6/21/07 7:41pm Message 2 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
First, you never need to apologize for asking questions here. There are no dumb, or stupid questions, either. We're ALL here to help!!
Now, on to your newest issue.

It really sounds like you have a loose/bad connection somewhere, or a problem with the starter/solenoid. The lights getting dim indicates the ignition switch is working, so that's a good sign.
I would suggest a complete examination of the battery connections. First, check the ground cable from the battery, to where it bolts up to the frame, just under the battery box. It's a short cable, and that's where the main ground for the car starts. Take the cable loose from there, and clean it as best you can, with sandpaper, a file, or wire brush, etc. Then, clean the frame where that cable goes, to make sure that connection will be good. If you see anything that looks like corrosion on the frame end of the cable, it probably needs to be replaced.

Once you have that done, check the ground cable from the frame to the engine. It is usually located on/by the passenger side engine mount bracket on the frame. The cable should go from the frame to the engine block there. Again, make sure that cable is in good shape, and the surfaces of the frame, and engine block are nice and clean.

Then, you should do the same things with the positive cable from the battery to the starter. Our cars have a really long pos. cable, and they do get corroded over time. Make sure both ends look nice, with no corrosion, or frayed wiring hanging out. Then check the cable connection at the starter solenoid, and be sure it is tight. Sometimes, the center terminal for the solenoid will be loose, and you may need to tighten the nut behind the one that holds the cable on. Another thing that happens is the terminal can get burnt on the inside of the solenoid, where it connects to the starter motor as the solenoid kicks in. I have had good luck with just loosening the nut on that terminal, pushing it in, and turning the terminal 180 degrees, and then tightening the nut back. This gives the other end of that terminal a new spot to make contact with, and has "fixed" many "no-start" problems.

Hope some of this helps.


Here's a pic of where the engine ground cable is, or should be...

                                                         Adams' Apple2007-06-21 19:46:09


Joel Adams
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Starting Problems

Posted: 6/22/07 3:45pm Message 3 of 13
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Australia
Joined: 5/6/2004
Posts: 535
Vette(s): 71 Coupe Black on Black
I'm presuming the bad battery is still in?
 
If so, because you have hooked it up reverse polarity as I read, you may have really damaged the battery.  They don't like reverse polarity.  You may have shorted some plates together and every time you hook up a "jumper" all the power is being consumed by the bad battery hence no power to the starter etc. 
 
Put a good battery in first and see what happens.



Starting Problems

Posted: 6/22/07 6:22pm Message 4 of 13
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BINGHAMTON, NY - USA
Joined: 7/19/2003
Posts: 3808
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I gotta agree,ya toasted the battery.it sounded like it was ready to go anyway,you just finished it off LOL.check & clean all your cables and connections,replace them if you have too.get yourself a new or good used battery,and hook it up,be careful not to hook it up backwards,you got lucky the last time,batteries can explode,it aint prettyConfused.try again with a good battery and let us know how you make out,we'll be here waiting to hear how you make out,the only dumb question is the ones that don't get asked LOL


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Starting Problems

Posted: 6/22/07 8:08pm Message 5 of 13
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Chester, WV - USA
Joined: 6/1/2007
Posts: 48
Vette(s): 1975 L82 Stingray Numbers matching motor and Trans
Well guys I cleaned up the negative gorund to the frame and some other little stuff... still had the same results.. So we decided to jump the solenoid and see if she would fire up. As soon as we did that she started right up instantly but the starter motor wouldn't disengauge even after we pulled the key out luckily we had a ratchet laying right there to pull the negative terminal.  the screw part I am assuming it may be called the terminal I am not to sure though but it was rather warm when I pulled it off..So now I am even more clueless on what the problem may be I have another starter the previous owner gave me that he said was still good should i try puttign it back on? Dante2007-06-22 20:36:02


Starting Problems

Posted: 6/22/07 9:01pm Message 6 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
That sounds like the starter solenoid is fried. Replace the starter and solenoid together, would be my recommendation. If you have another starter, check it before going thru the trouble of swapping them out. All you need is a good hot battery, and some jumper cables. Put the black(ground) cable on the starter nose, and then have someone hold onto the starter so it don't jump around. Put the positive jumper cable to the large terminal, and the small, inside terminal(marked "S") on the solenoid at the same time. If the starter/solenoid is good, it will kick the bendix(gear drive) out, and spin at the same time. You can just put the pos. cable to the large terminal, and jump to the small inside terminal with a screwdriver, if you want, also.

Before you do any of that, tho...did the starter make any loud grinding noises when it started before? IF the starter is not shimmed right, or aligned correctly, the bendix could bind on the flywheel, and that would keep it engaged and running after the engine starts. The bendix needs to be able to release from the flywheel once started. I've seen them do that many times, and keep the starter running after the engine has fired off. Just another idea...Adams' Apple2007-06-22 21:05:26


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


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             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Starting Problems

Posted: 6/24/07 7:05pm Message 7 of 13
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Chester, WV - USA
Joined: 6/1/2007
Posts: 48
Vette(s): 1975 L82 Stingray Numbers matching motor and Trans
The problems continue went to autozone today bought a new battery cause the old one was a heap of crap according to their test machine then I bought a new starter and solenoid... Get it all in go to fire her up thinking everything is going to perfect. Well she fires right up liek nothing but the damn starter will not shut off, I take the key clear out  the motor did stop firing but continued to turn over and the starter was still running.. So I pull the negative terminal and it finally stops.. tried it agian same results what the hell is wrong now


Starting Problems

Posted: 6/25/07 3:29pm Message 8 of 13
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Australia
Joined: 5/6/2004
Posts: 535
Vette(s): 71 Coupe Black on Black
Sounds like you've hooked the starter up wrong or you've fried your starter switch.  Does the starter engage as soon as you reconnect the battery?


Starting Problems

Posted: 6/25/07 6:20pm Message 9 of 13
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Wow...
Like Chip, I was curious if the starter engages as soon as you connect the battery cable, but then...you said it started ok, but the starter wouldn't dis-engage, so...that pretty well answers that. I have to assume if the starter engaged as soon as you connected the batt. the first time, you would have said so.
That leaves us with the problem at hand...wtf?!?

I have to ax again...does the starter grind, or make any abnormal noises when cranking? Also, when you unhooked the battery, did you happen to hear a click/thump/clunk from the starter area? And...if you connect the battery right back up, is the starter now "off"? If all/any of this is "Yes", I still think you may have a starter that is binding on the flywheel, and keeping the bendix engaged, which would also keep the starter motor running.
While the starter is still running, and the engine running, if you rev it up, will the starter dis-engage?

The only way for this to happen by wiring it wrong would be to have continuous 12v on the inside terminal(the one closest to the block), but it would be that way all the time, not just after starting it.

Try this...loosen the starter bolts a bit, maybe two-three rounds, and see if the problem goes away. If it does, then you need some shims.

Does your car still have the bracket on the tail of the starter that bolts to the block?


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Starting Problems

Posted: 6/25/07 7:01pm Message 10 of 13
Former Member
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Chester, WV - USA
Joined: 6/1/2007
Posts: 48
Vette(s): 1975 L82 Stingray Numbers matching motor and Trans
The starter does not start turning when I connect the battery only when i turn the key to the start position. I crawled under there right after I pulled the negative and the bendix key was still engaged... but when you hook the negative battery terminal back up nothing happens unitl you turn the key to the start position.
 
I have not tryed to rev the motor I am kinda scared of destroying the starter already..
 
How many shims should I try I had two on there before when i tried it but those things are so small... and I am not exactly sure how to shim a starter its the first one I have ever replaced and the guy at autozone did not give me the instrustions on how to shim that a sticker on the starter says should be there..  And yes the starter still has the bracket on the rear that runs up to the engine block



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