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Topic: Timing Set Problem

in Forum: C3 Engines


Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/9/06 11:26am Message 1 of 37
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ORLANDO, FL - USA
Joined: 12/11/2002
Posts: 459
Vette(s): 1980 L82 Dark Metallic Green Coupe, Gymkhana Suspension, AM/FM/CB, GM ZZ383....nice....

Well I finally got a weekend to spend some time on the vette. It has been killing me not being able to drive her in the best part of the season. A few weeks ago she died when traveling at around 30mph. Found the distributor was not turning and felt I broke the timing chain.

Today I drained the oil and noticed slight grey looking for the first 5-10 seconds of the drain (not a good sign). Pulled off everything needed to get the timing cover off and the chain was still on... hmm... felt like allot of play in the chain and then I noticed that I could just lift it off without unbolting the timing set. About 1/4 of the gears on the cam part of the set was rounded off. AHHHHHH! (110 K miles). When I touched the gear a grey silvery residue was easily coming off on my fingers.

What needs to happen next? Can I replace with a new timing set and flush by making a couple oil changes after short run times? Do I need to pull the engine and dissassemble?




 
1980 L82 (5069 made), Dark Green Metalic (844 made)
Gymkhana Suspension, AM/FM/CB, Sporting a ZZ383......... 
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Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/9/06 12:45pm Message 2 of 37
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Wow! That sux!
You can just change the gears/chain, without any problem. Do a couple of oil changes after that, and you're good to go.
The grey/silvery crap is ground up 'luminum, from the cam gear. Replace the gears with steel gears only!! I prefer to use double roller gears/chain, due to the greater durability of them. They're not that much more expensive than normal, and will last way longer!


Joel Adams
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Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/9/06 2:46pm Message 3 of 37
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ORLANDO, FL - USA
Joined: 12/11/2002
Posts: 459
Vette(s): 1980 L82 Dark Metallic Green Coupe, Gymkhana Suspension, AM/FM/CB, GM ZZ383....nice....

Well thats great news! No need to drop the oil pan? Check or change oil pump?

If figure if I can get her running again without too much pain/cost, that will give me more time to decide on the real engine upgrade path (crate or rebuild mine). I have never changed a timing chain or water pump etc, etc.. so this is new territory for me. So far things have been coming off OK. I will probably need some pointers to get this stuff back together with the position of the crank, cam, timing set, distributor.

In looking at my hand dandy Haines manual, it looks like I need to get the crank so it is at TDC (?tips), then turn cam to align the mark with the mark on the crank gear (verify matches #1 in distributor?) and put gearset on. Is this right?




 
1980 L82 (5069 made), Dark Green Metalic (844 made)
Gymkhana Suspension, AM/FM/CB, Sporting a ZZ383......... 

Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/9/06 3:17pm Message 4 of 37
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Yup!!(in a nut-shell)
It might be a good idea, since you already have the front off, to drop the pan, clean it out, and change the oil pump while you're there. Preventative maintenence, don't ya know?!
Line the two marks on the gears up, crank @ 12, cam @ 6, and you're done. The rotor on the dist., should point at #1 plug, but beware; I've seen some cam gears that are 180deg off on the mark. If it don't fire up right away, and it belches at ya, run your plug wires again, but move them directly opposite of where they are.(it's easier than pulling the dist out & turnin it, but you could do that, if ya want).


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

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Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/12/06 2:46pm Message 5 of 37
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ORLANDO, FL - USA
Joined: 12/11/2002
Posts: 459
Vette(s): 1980 L82 Dark Metallic Green Coupe, Gymkhana Suspension, AM/FM/CB, GM ZZ383....nice....

Thanks Joel.

To drop the pan I need to disconnect the idler arm? lower front steering linkage? converter inspection cover? then change the oil pump? Is this difficult for a beginner non mechanic (I am learning as I go)? Any tips? Can the pan be loosened and slid backward and out without disconnecting steering components? Anything I need to be concerned about with the oil pump replacement?

Also, is dropping the oil pan and changing the oil pump a must task or just a good thing to do? 

FLA VETTE38819.7843634259


 
1980 L82 (5069 made), Dark Green Metalic (844 made)
Gymkhana Suspension, AM/FM/CB, Sporting a ZZ383......... 

Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/12/06 7:20pm Message 6 of 37
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
No, Bernie, just a suggestion on the pump. It's not a really hard job if you got it in the air, but a bit of a pain on yer back! You can get by with just the chain/gear change.
(The pan will not come out without droping the steering linkage, but with the linkage dropped, it comes off easily.)



Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/13/06 6:37am Message 7 of 37
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goldens bridge, NY - USA
Joined: 11/3/2003
Posts: 498
Vette(s): 1972 T-Top 350 auto, matching numbers,Blue, ac

Joel:  Sounds like the gear change is pretty simple - My question is - the previous owner - Buba put in a different cam - Am I correct in that I must pull timing chain cover - to look at end of cam shaft - there should be mfg markings on the end -to tell me what cam and specs - Is this correct

Thanks  Big Al





Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/13/06 12:06pm Message 8 of 37
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA
Joined: 12/2/2003
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Vette(s): 1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!
You can hope.  You might find info on the end of the cam.  And you might not.  It depends on who made the cam.   If you find numbers it probably won't give you the specs, but give you enough you can find the specs.   I would look if you are there, but don't get your hopes too high.


Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/13/06 5:27pm Message 9 of 37
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Most quality cams do have mfg. markings/part #s on them. The bad part is......its usually on the rear journal/face of the cam!!


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Timing Set Problem

Posted: 4/19/06 5:47pm Message 10 of 37
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goldens bridge, NY - USA
Joined: 11/3/2003
Posts: 498
Vette(s): 1972 T-Top 350 auto, matching numbers,Blue, ac

ThaNKS, aLL i KNOW IS THAT THE ENGINE HAS A NICE LOPY IDLE, SOUND GREAT .wHEN i BOUGHT THE CAR - PREVIOUS OWNER DECEASED - i WAS TOLD IT WASN'T A NUMBERS MATCHING CAR - WHICH WAS ok WITH ME. aFTER ALL THESE INQUIRIES ABOUT NUMBERS - LOW AND BEHOLD - MY BLOCK IS THE ORIGINAL, THE HEADS ARE LT-1 HEADS (ACCORDING TO THE CASTINGG NUMBERS) po CHANGED INTAKE TO rpm PERFORMER - SO IT LOOKS LIKE A HAVE A NON BASE 350 IN THE ORIGINAL BLOCK . wEIRD - THE HEAD DATES ARE VERY CLOSE TO THE ENGINE MFG DATE . mAYBE THE po DID SOME RESEARCH BEFOR THE SWITCH.

iF i EVER TEAR DOWN THE ENGINE - I CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THE CAM, CRANK ETC -BUT FOR NOW IT RUNS ,AIN'T BROKE SO WHY MESS WITH IT

bIG aL





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