Topic: Timing woes
in Forum: C3 Engines
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Former Member
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Charleston AFB, SC - USA
Joined: 10/31/2007
Posts: 111
Vette(s): 1979 Cream Beige Coupe w/383 & 700R4
We, I'm having fits trying to get the 383 timed right. I've had it set at 16/36 and all in at 2700 for a while. Thing is, I just got my 700R4 fixed and now my lockup is working again. While going down the highway at 50-65, if I give it gas, it starts pinging. Lockup stays engaged and it's too much load on the engine. I tried retarding the timing all the way down to 6 deg initial, and it STILL does it, on top of smelling like a refinery.
I'm really lost as to what to do from here. I have an edelbrock 1903 q-jet and the vacuum advance on the dist is ported vacuum, not full manifold vac.
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated, before I put a hole in a piston.
-Josh
I'm really lost as to what to do from here. I have an edelbrock 1903 q-jet and the vacuum advance on the dist is ported vacuum, not full manifold vac.
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated, before I put a hole in a piston.
-Josh
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Former Member
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Yelm, WA - USA
Joined: 7/12/2007
Posts: 356
Vette(s): 1979 L82 4 speed Scat 383 crank 190 cc Procomp Aluminum Heads 202 160 stainless valves GM Powder metal rods Speedpro H860CP Hypereutectic pistons 280 cam hydralic HEI Pro comp 1.6 roller rockers Mighty Demon 750 Sanderson CC1AP Hedders.
I'm going through the same thing! Joel gave me some decent links http://www.c3vr.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72345
16 BTDC initial seemed to get me in the ballpark. I even went to 17-18 today and still only got 34 @ 3000 RPM though. There is no way I can go below 16 without problems, thank god I bought the plug booties my headers were lit up like crazy and I probably took 5 years off my engine. Also my 383 likes to idle around 1000 anything lower and it runs like poo. I got a little popping coming out of my exhaust still and I'm sure it's in the carb so I'm gonna attack that tonight and tomorrow. I tried the vac gauge method and it got me way off just cause I don't know what I'm doing so I went back to the light. I also threw a bottle of octane boost in it with chevron 92 and that seemed to help a bit. I'm sure my neighbors hate me by now 

Former Member
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Charleston AFB, SC - USA
Joined: 10/31/2007
Posts: 111
Vette(s): 1979 Cream Beige Coupe w/383 & 700R4
Hah yeah my headers have been glowing orange more than once. I dunno, I'm really unsure how to get it to stop pinging. If it does it even at 6 deg btdc I'm thinking my engine just has too much compression for 93 octane. That would be horrible if true :(
Former Member
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Yelm, WA - USA
Joined: 7/12/2007
Posts: 356
Vette(s): 1979 L82 4 speed Scat 383 crank 190 cc Procomp Aluminum Heads 202 160 stainless valves GM Powder metal rods Speedpro H860CP Hypereutectic pistons 280 cam hydralic HEI Pro comp 1.6 roller rockers Mighty Demon 750 Sanderson CC1AP Hedders.
I'm going to set mine back to 16 initial, that seemed to work the best for me. Try a bottle of octane boost and let me know what you think I'm pretty sure it made a difference in mine. I'm taking my demon carb off tonight and reseting it to baseline, because I have totally screwed it up. I'm not really driving mine yet just, in n out of the gargage. The more I re-read Ben's post on setting the timing curve the more sense it makes to me especially with the 383. Now I gotta figure out how to make that happen.

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If youse guys are running with a vacuum advance on your distributors, you may have a problem with the advance not being correct for the engine. The advance mechanism should actually retard the timing in low vacuum situations, such as goosing it while cruising, or "rolling" into the throttle.
Also, make sure the shaft with the weights will actually turn independently of the mainshaft. A lot of time, the advance mechanism is frozen, and the thing just doesn't work right. The weights, and/or the pins they pivot on can be worn, causing the advance to just jump all over the place.
Where is the vacuum for the advance coming from...ported, or direct from the intake? In other words, below the throttle plates(direct), or above the throttle plates(ported)?
Ported vacuum will advance the timing as you give it more throttle. Direct vacuum will retard the timing as you give it throttle. Different setups may require different vac. sources. I've always used direct vacuum on hot-rods, and ported on "drivers".
My way of doing things ain't the only way, tho, so...take that with a grain of salt.
Also, make sure the shaft with the weights will actually turn independently of the mainshaft. A lot of time, the advance mechanism is frozen, and the thing just doesn't work right. The weights, and/or the pins they pivot on can be worn, causing the advance to just jump all over the place.
Where is the vacuum for the advance coming from...ported, or direct from the intake? In other words, below the throttle plates(direct), or above the throttle plates(ported)?
Ported vacuum will advance the timing as you give it more throttle. Direct vacuum will retard the timing as you give it throttle. Different setups may require different vac. sources. I've always used direct vacuum on hot-rods, and ported on "drivers".

My way of doing things ain't the only way, tho, so...take that with a grain of salt.

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Former Member
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Yelm, WA - USA
Joined: 7/12/2007
Posts: 356
Vette(s): 1979 L82 4 speed Scat 383 crank 190 cc Procomp Aluminum Heads 202 160 stainless valves GM Powder metal rods Speedpro H860CP Hypereutectic pistons 280 cam hydralic HEI Pro comp 1.6 roller rockers Mighty Demon 750 Sanderson CC1AP Hedders.
Yeah I've been told more than once to drop the HEI and get an MSD type mech advance. I'm running the advance from the direct manifold port on my demon. I initially tried the ported but gave up pretty quickly on that as it responds way better off the direct vacuum and does like you said the timing drops initially when I goose the trhottle but then advances as rpm's increase.
I think this it's just going to be a little tricky to find that sweet spot between street driveability and running ball's out, but that's half the fun I guess
.

Ok, my 2 cents here, go with the MSD, it's been the best thing I ever did under the hood. Half the fun is tuning it to run just right, not living with the limitations of a system that doesn't fit what you're trying to do.

Hipo69 2008-01-29 00:39:31
Also, forget the octane boost. From what I've read all it does is coat your compression chamber with a goo that prevents detonation, it doesn't actually boost octane (I've never found any info anywhere that has actually measured an octane increase). I ended up researching this as I have an 11:1 compression small block that I tried octane boost in twice. I ended up throwing out a nearly new set of plugs that were all gummed up with an orangish goo. Never again.
Do you have access to race gas (I use 110 octane)? It's not cheap but replacing 2 to 4 $3 gallons of gas with 2 to 4 $5 gallons of gas yields a fantasticly smooth engine that runs the way it should.
But then again, you didn't mention the compression, it could after all just be all a timing problem. Of course with the race gas thrown in, the only timing problem is how to get the most performace out of what you have.

Former Member
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Yelm, WA - USA
Joined: 7/12/2007
Posts: 356
Vette(s): 1979 L82 4 speed Scat 383 crank 190 cc Procomp Aluminum Heads 202 160 stainless valves GM Powder metal rods Speedpro H860CP Hypereutectic pistons 280 cam hydralic HEI Pro comp 1.6 roller rockers Mighty Demon 750 Sanderson CC1AP Hedders.
I figure my compressions 9.6:1, I'm going to try to nail down the timing before throwing some 110 gas in it, be nice to get it running right on pump gas first. After today I'm definately on board with changin out the HEI.
I got it timed so much better using the vacuum gauge, I reset my carb last night to the base line settings so today I started all over. I started out with the light @ 16 btdc initial and that sucked, had a lot of popping out of the exhaust, I also had the vaccum gauge hooked up so I followed ben's post and turned it to peak, adjusted my idle and then did it again backed off the timing a bit and shot the initial with a light and it was @ 20 btdc. Run up to 3000 RPM and it's at 34 BTDC. Played around between 34 and 36 and then hooked the advance back up. Runs a lot better, dosen't diesel when I shut it down, cranks pretty hard when I try to start it back up no detonation no backfire and a fairly smooth idle around 1100. I can really see how nailing the timing curve down will make a difference with driving it on the street. darn thing is blowing through the gas though
and I keep running out. It'll be good for now untill I can get it down to the shop where I can let the old pro down there school me on tuning it just right.

Sounds like you're really on the right track between timing with the vacumn gauge and experimenting with different timing. Just a gentle reminder on a couple of points. If you're burning more gas (in your case) it's probaby because you're making more horsepower.
2, if you're changing out the HEI than you may be starting all over again on setting the timing curve, so you might want to do that first. and 3, tune if for the octane level you plan to use. If you tune it for 89 octane you won't get much if any benefit from 110 octane. If you tune it for 96 octane (which is what I get after I mix it with 93) then you won't be able to burn 89 any more, but you'll be reaping the benefit of the higher octane.
With 9.6:1 I would think that your best bet is a high quality ignition and nothing but 93 octane. Performance gains with higher octane would be minimal and wouldn't outweigh the convenience of 93 octane gas.
Good luck with it though, sounds like you're on the right track!!
in Forum: C3 Engines
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