Topic: well hell...back to the drawing board.
in Forum: C3 Engines
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Orland Park, IL - USA
Joined: 11/14/2003
Posts: 43
Vette(s): 1973 TT custom pearl orange paint
355 ci, modified Turbo 400, 3.55 rear end, R134a air, balanced & blueprinted custom engine work, deluxe black interior
Just my $0.02 worth. With all those hard earned dollars your spending, why not a custom grind cam? This is a specialty of Comp Cams and it probably wouldn't add $100 to the total. Also, $4000.00 for AFR heads? I got mine directly from AFR -- 190cc, and with the additional work they did to reduce the combustion chambers from 72cc to 64 cc the bill was $1562.00 including shipping. Great heads. My .030 over 350ci with the same carb your thinking of, the Performer EPS intake, Comp roller rockers, 9.4:1 compression and a Comp XE256 cam (212/218 duration @ .050", lobe separation 110) with lift of .477/.484 Comp roller rockers got me 382 hp and 411 lb-ft torque. Best of all, it's got just a slight "sound" to it -- makes "fried rice" like Chinese take-out. Good luck!
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Wow those are good heads! My combo is trickflow heads with a comp cams magnum 270 and every thing else is the same as your motor except a 10.3 comp. I'm getting about 390 hp. so you got less compression and a smaller cam and about the same power as I do.
|UPDATED|10/30/2004 4:13:28 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
|UPDATED|10/30/2004 4:13:28 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(
curious and nervous about how I'm gonna hit 10 seconds in this vette, not sure exactly how it's gonna be done yet. just need to solidify a plan of action, and then execute. god the army's poisoned me. keep the ideas flowin, I love the input.
Mike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)
You should go about this with priority on the short block first since this is your foundation for your power. $2000 will not build a strong enough short block. You need to be looking at all forged components including your crank, connecting rods (h-beams), pistons. Your pistons need to be either dished or flat topped so that you will have about 8.5 to 9.0 compression with what ever heads you select. Have a good machine shop build your short block, stressing balancing and making sure your block is in good shape such as line hone, bore, decking, maybe shot peen. $3500 is not out of line for a 600+ hp short block in parts and labor. Remember, you want this engine to last, budget build shortblocks are fine for less then 400 hp engines, but 600+ hp engines could end in disaster if not built strong enough. Dont be afaid copy off some one elses combo. look at chevy high perfomance web site or other mags build ups.
|UPDATED|11/1/2004 1:43:40 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
|UPDATED|11/1/2004 1:43:40 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(
I hate money. give me more. expanding on the whole need for a better performing block, would the World Products Lite Aluminum SB be more oriented to what I need, both performance AND budgetwise?
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=202488&prmenbr=361
and as for the crankshaft, would somethin like this work?
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1248&prmenbr=361
The main problem I face is unknown job security. Right now the force protection team for the state has great jobs with beyond excellent pay. however our orders only go til april 30th. there's a large chance that we'll be extended, like we JUST were on september 30th, however the brass is trying to find an alternate method of providing security. our CO doesn't think they'll have reached a finite decision by april and that we'll be extended to the end of the year 2005, but there are no gaurantees, so there's a large chance that april could roll around and I suddenly lose all income, all progress on my vette halts. I'd like to have the suspension, brakes, and engine done by then so that the car is driveable during the summertime. that's my biggest reason for looking at as low a budget as is humanly possible. keep the ideas flowin!
(on that note would it be easier/cheaper to try to work with what I already have, original engine block etc to reach the standards I need, or to buy a new block, go from there, etc. whichever would accomplish what I need done with the least amount of cost.)
|UPDATED|11/1/2004 5:35:17 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=202488&prmenbr=361
and as for the crankshaft, would somethin like this work?
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1248&prmenbr=361
The main problem I face is unknown job security. Right now the force protection team for the state has great jobs with beyond excellent pay. however our orders only go til april 30th. there's a large chance that we'll be extended, like we JUST were on september 30th, however the brass is trying to find an alternate method of providing security. our CO doesn't think they'll have reached a finite decision by april and that we'll be extended to the end of the year 2005, but there are no gaurantees, so there's a large chance that april could roll around and I suddenly lose all income, all progress on my vette halts. I'd like to have the suspension, brakes, and engine done by then so that the car is driveable during the summertime. that's my biggest reason for looking at as low a budget as is humanly possible. keep the ideas flowin!
(on that note would it be easier/cheaper to try to work with what I already have, original engine block etc to reach the standards I need, or to buy a new block, go from there, etc. whichever would accomplish what I need done with the least amount of cost.)
|UPDATED|11/1/2004 5:35:17 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
Mike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)
The dart iron eagle block or the world products iron motown block is a better idea for your application. Alumnium is great and all but in your case does not warrent the extra expense. You can still use your original block if you want to, but have steel 4 bolt caps put in and even get them splayed. With the after market block you can put a bigger stroker crank than your old block because they built them to allow the extra clearance. If this was my choice, I would get the assembled world products 427 cid smallblock chevy short block for street. look at: http://www.theengineshop.com/sbkits3.shtml
There is all you need right there. The price is high but I think is worth it. Bolt on your AFR heads and get the right cam and add your supercharger/turbo and voila! at least a 10 second car. The 72 cc heads are what I would go for and run under 10 psi boost. Then detonation should not be a problem using premium gas.
|UPDATED|11/1/2004 8:28:26 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
There is all you need right there. The price is high but I think is worth it. Bolt on your AFR heads and get the right cam and add your supercharger/turbo and voila! at least a 10 second car. The 72 cc heads are what I would go for and run under 10 psi boost. Then detonation should not be a problem using premium gas.
|UPDATED|11/1/2004 8:28:26 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
just in case your not sure what goes into building a shortblock here is a nice short article that tells the basics. http://www.worldcastings.com/articles/007149ah/007149ahb.pdf

Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(
why the street application as opposed to the racing application. forgive me, what I know is still so limited. and what other parts would I need to turn that assembly into a complete engine? pretty much the parts I've got on my list, or...? gonna go check out competition cams too. I looked on summit racing for that mega-starter from the article, can't find it. I'd prefer to have my engine as polished as budget allows. and I don't think I had a starter on that list...
Mike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)

Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(
investigated comp cams, and have no way of knowing what parts I'd need, even what cam.
Mike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)
Compression ratio, Compression ratio, that is why you want the street shortblock. Unless you want to be running on alcohol only you need to have a 9.1 compression ratio for your boosted motor. A high compression motor cannot run on pump gas premium. It will detonate its self to death. Detonation is when the gas mixture explodes at the wrong moment of the compression/power stroke, thus putting serious strain on the piston or head gasket. Trust me if you want a reliable pump gas freindly motor stay with a 9.1 compression at least if you are planning on adding boost on top of it. I would also talk to AFR directly on what you plan on doing and they will tell you what heads you need. Plus some say they are cheaper to buy from directly.
in Forum: C3 Engines
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