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Topic: cross fire injection rebuild? or not

in Forum: C3 Fuel, Emission Control, and Exhaust Systems

cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/3/07 10:43am Message 1 of 11
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Little Rock, AR - USA
Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 123
Vette(s): 1982 Collector Edition
My '82 seems to run rich, very slow to idle down at a signal light or stop. I have to hold the brake hard to keep it from taking off. I've adjusted the idle to 500 r's at engine operating temp but when I hit the road it just doesn't seem to want to idle down. Should I rebuild my cross fires or is there another fueling system that is good with mileage and power?
Terntes 



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cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/3/07 1:12pm Message 2 of 11
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Saxonburg, PA - USA
Joined: 11/14/2003
Posts: 143
Vette(s): 1982 Black over red, doing a resto.
Get online to www.corvettefever.com. Look for thr March 2000 issue. It's full of info to set up the crossfire system.
 
Vacuum leaks are the biggest problem, and throttle body balance.
 
I bought a manometer on Ebay for $13.00 to adjust them.
 
I like mine, it starts right up and as soon as it goes into closed loop, it idles fine. They do tend to idle rich.
 
Hope that helps you some.
 
Denny



cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/5/07 11:24am Message 3 of 11
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Cramerton, NC - USA
Joined: 8/22/2006
Posts: 1094
Vette(s): black 1982 coupe slate gray interior, 350 crossfire, 1985 fuel pump, Steeroids R&P conversion
Like xfire, Im satisfied with my crossfire but do understand the problem of high idle at a stoplight.  Mine will occasionally idle high at a light but after about 5 seconds will start to return to normal idle.  It seems to idle down in steps, usually 3 steps until its at normal idle. Im assuming that its the computer stepping it down in stages.  Mine starts up quikly and reliably though and Ive learned to expect the high idle occasionally. Id be interested to know what you decide to do , rebuild or change fuel systems.  If you decide to have it rebuilt though, try to find someone who is familiar with the crossfire system.  Lots of GM cars used a single throttle body like that on your 82, but it s the balancing of the twin throttle bodies that is the trick.  As xfire mentioned, a namoneter is required to balance the throttle bodies so they will work together.   If you have a factory service manual, there is a detailed procedure for balancing the bodies.  Oh, if someone hasn't already adjusted them you will find that the balance screws are capped to prevent tampering, you will have to break the spot weld to get to the adjustments.


cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/6/07 9:09am Message 4 of 11
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Victor, NY - USA
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6841
Vette(s): 2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe
On a cold start mine will idle up and down between 1200 and 500 rpm for about 6 seconds, then idle at 800.
No problem at stop lights. Steady at 800.
Seems like it is either working great or a big PITA.
 
I don't know if any POs had the gaskets and seals replaced, but I now have 110,000 miles on her and I ain't gonna touch anything until it acts up.Wink



 
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cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/7/07 2:11am Message 5 of 11
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Little Rock, AR - USA
Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 123
Vette(s): 1982 Collector Edition
   Thanks for the input from everyone! My car does have over 100k miles, also. The idle doesn't run up until I've driven a little, otherwise it hangs around 1000 r's at a stop light if I shift into neutral or park. When I stop and put it in park it will take several minutes to finally idle down. I guess the biggest complaint about the idle is when I shift from drive through neutral to reverse or more so going from reverse to drive, I get a big clunk going into drive and the rear seems to squat quite a bit. There seems to be a lot of play some where in the drive line, but when I took it to the transmission shop he said it shift just fine, and it does, really, under normal driving. I guess I need to address the drive line or shaft play when shifting from reverse to drive, or neutral into drive, it's not as bad from drive to reverse.
Thanks again,
Terntes.



cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/7/07 5:28am Message 6 of 11
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
I wouldn't be too concerned about the driveline issue until the high idle is corrected.
With that many miles on your car, I would have to suspect the IAC(Idle Air Control) motor is sticking from carbon build-up, or has enough carbon built up on the seat to hang the idle higher than normal.
As Crossfire1982 states, the factory service manual will have info on checking this, also. The IAC motor will work in "steps" as it idles up/down.
HTH


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cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/7/07 2:54pm Message 7 of 11
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Saxonburg, PA - USA
Joined: 11/14/2003
Posts: 143
Vette(s): 1982 Black over red, doing a resto.
If you check the easy stuff, like vacuum leaks at the base of the throttle bodies , the top manifold plate to lower manifold, and cruise control / headlight / heater vacuum port behind the left throttle body and all is okay, I would do the throttle body balance check.
 
I rebuilt my engine, replaced all sensors, resealed the throttle bodies and Intake manifold. I had the same problem you have untill I balanced the throttle bodies.
 
As they wear, the shafts may leak vacuum or the throttle plates close too tight, then the electric control module ( ECM) tries to adjust the idle through the idle air controls ( IACs ).
 
The ECM in our 82 Vettes is very slow compared to todays OBDII ECMs.
 
Untill you slow the idle down, shift real fast to D or R.
 
Let us know how it turns out,
 
Denny



cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/8/07 10:17am Message 8 of 11
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Little Rock, AR - USA
Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 123
Vette(s): 1982 Collector Edition
Thanks for the input! I'll check the IAC. I don't seem to have any noticeable vacuum leaks and the car idles just right after first starting in the morning or when it sits at an idle and I'm working on it, usually several minutes. It's the inbetween instances like running in the store for something and then right back out, starts great but idles way high, and then backing out of a parking slot and shifting from R to D, kaklunk, makes me hurt a little, you know. I hurt when my car hurts.
Terry.



cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/9/07 7:48am Message 9 of 11
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Apache Junction, AZ - USA
Joined: 10/15/2006
Posts: 285
Vette(s): 1982,150K,Renegade CFI,Hooker Side Pipes,85 fuel pump,Bilsteins,HD suspension, Aluminum radiator, SharkBar/w 5-Point Restraints. 3:73 gears coming soon.
Most likely the vacuum leak that may be causing your idle problems is coming from worn throttle shafts on both TB's. If you can wiggle them side to side, up and down - especially if you can actually hear them wiggle - you have a bad vacuum leak there! I had my throttle shafts bushed and the idle problem was totally gone - also rebuilt the TB's and balanced them. The throttle shafts even with 50k miles can be worn enough to leak and Crossfire Injection is VERY sensitive to vacuum leaks!
  I got mine done at DCS: http://crossfireinjection.net/
  A lot of people hate the CFI but they just do not know how to work on them - even your seasoned vette mechanics. It's a unique system and needs a little unique knowledge  to get and keep it running tops!
Good Luck!!

Phill's Vette2007-08-09 07:49:51


cross fire injection rebuild? or not

Posted: 8/9/07 9:41am Message 10 of 11
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Burke, VT - USA
Joined: 1/23/2002
Posts: 7280
Vette(s): SOLD - "The Toy" - '70 Convertible
SOLD - "The Beast" - '90 ZR-1 (#682)
SOLD - "Betty" - '28 Ford Model A Tudor
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"BLUBYU" - '04 Coupe
Pete and I had all kinds of fun bringing his '82CE back from California.  Found lots of vacuum issues with shot gaskets and hoses.  "Hot Rod" Mike in Richfield, UT did tell us that the idle motors get lazy with age and that coupled with the slower processing of the "old" computer would cause some idle down issues.
 
Dr. Ken gave us a temporary fix to try on the throttle bodies.  Both TB gaskets were leaking so he suggested after the engine had cooled down to put a bead of silicon around the base of each TB.  It would plug the leakage and be easy to pull off later when replacing the gaskets (we actually didn't end up trying it as we pulled off the freeway well after business hours and were rolling early the next morning - but it made sense as a temporary fix).
 
After getting home Pete eventually had the entire system gone through by a mechanic and the car runs great now.
Norsky2007-08-09 09:44:32


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in Forum: C3 Fuel, Emission Control, and Exhaust Systems


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