Topic: EFI or carb and why?
in Forum: C3 Fuel, Emission Control, and Exhaust Systems
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Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(
for those of you who have been following my back to the drawing board post, I'm building a new engine which will end up being boosted for my 77 corvette. I'd like to have a streetable car that quarters in 10 seconds, something that is driveable but that I can still take to the track. the time has come to make the decision, EFI or carburetor? since I honestly can't decide, I need some help. I'm looking at efficiency, reliability, performance, cost to build, all of the above. so let the debate begin!
Mike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)
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Hot Springs, AR - USA
Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3236
Vette(s): 69 Conv #'s match 427, TKO-600/.64, 3.36HD-Posi, HT, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Leather, Comp XE264HR & Roller Rockers & Lifters, Air-Gap RPM intake, Holley St Av 770 VS, MSD 6AL+Dist+Blaster SS, K&N, Jet-Hot Hooker Side-Pipes, Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans
both edelbrock and holley make EFI good kits. I think holley has one that is designed to work with a blower..
carbueration usually has a sweet spot where the air and fuel are balanced and its close but not quite right at all other points.
EFI is always right.
carbueration your are depending on vacuum to pull the air and fuel in. Efi you are pushing the fuel in in the correct amount to match the amount of air than being sucked in.
EFI is better. All other things being equal, as far as I know there is no realistic case where a carb is more efficient or more powerful than EFI.
carbueration usually has a sweet spot where the air and fuel are balanced and its close but not quite right at all other points.
EFI is always right.
carbueration your are depending on vacuum to pull the air and fuel in. Efi you are pushing the fuel in in the correct amount to match the amount of air than being sucked in.
EFI is better. All other things being equal, as far as I know there is no realistic case where a carb is more efficient or more powerful than EFI.
I agree with Ben. Thats the only way to go if you have the $$ to do it up front. BTW, make sure you make your decision before you sellect your cam.
Brian - NCM Lifetime Member
73 coupe L48, Flat-top pistons, Performer RPM Heads, Crane Cam and roller rockers, Holley 650 vac sec. Performer intake,
3.55 gear BTO 200-4R trans,
Leather seats, Seatbelt Plus 3point seatbelts, Pioneer CD player
Magnaflow Exhuast System
Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans
Borgeson Steering box

EFI delivers more even fuel volume the the cylinders than a carb. This is due to injecting fuel right at the intake valves. Fuel is heavier than air and tends to drop out of suspension. So a carb delivers less fuel to cylinders further away, and more to the closer cylinders. One for EFI
Due to the pressures, the spray pattern of fuel into the vacuum causes the fuel to break up better and more completely. Liquid does not burn, only the vapor on the surface. Smaller drops means more surface, better flame propagation, more power and less emissions. Two for EFI
The computer control of the EFI is faster and more responsive then the air and vacuum control of a carb. Therfore it has quicker response. Three for EFI
The effect of the previous three is also better fuel mileage. Four for EFI
Due to the precision, there is less carbon deposits and contaminated blowby than with a carb. This helps keep the oil cleaner, and thats less engine wear. Five for EFI
EFI is more complex and requires sensors and inputs, more wiring, more costly manifolds. It simply is much more expensive. One for Carbs
EFI requires more knowledge and skill to repair and diagnosis than carbs. But anyone who is a good tech and understands both systems can handle either. It depends on knowledge and experience. TIE
EFI requires special diagnosic equipment that is not needed for carbs. Two for carbs.
Score EFI 4, Carb 2, Tie 1 But these are not equals. The benefits of EFI far outweight the benefits of carbs. EFI is a clearly superior choice. If you can afford it.
EXCEPT, when nothing but raw horsepower is whats on tap. If you don't care about idle, tip in, cold operation, or anything but huge amounts of honking horsepower at Wide Open Throttle, the carbs can take over. This is only considered for drag racing, wide open all the time operation. A tall manifold with two four barrels or a couple of Predator carbs and you can dump amazing amounts of fuel and air into a monster motor. Advantage, not streetable carbs. Don't even think about trying to drive this on the street or highway. But if you want 6 or 7 in the 1/4, it's nice.
Still the same thing. How good do you want? How much do you want to spend?
Due to the pressures, the spray pattern of fuel into the vacuum causes the fuel to break up better and more completely. Liquid does not burn, only the vapor on the surface. Smaller drops means more surface, better flame propagation, more power and less emissions. Two for EFI
The computer control of the EFI is faster and more responsive then the air and vacuum control of a carb. Therfore it has quicker response. Three for EFI
The effect of the previous three is also better fuel mileage. Four for EFI
Due to the precision, there is less carbon deposits and contaminated blowby than with a carb. This helps keep the oil cleaner, and thats less engine wear. Five for EFI
EFI is more complex and requires sensors and inputs, more wiring, more costly manifolds. It simply is much more expensive. One for Carbs
EFI requires more knowledge and skill to repair and diagnosis than carbs. But anyone who is a good tech and understands both systems can handle either. It depends on knowledge and experience. TIE
EFI requires special diagnosic equipment that is not needed for carbs. Two for carbs.
Score EFI 4, Carb 2, Tie 1 But these are not equals. The benefits of EFI far outweight the benefits of carbs. EFI is a clearly superior choice. If you can afford it.
EXCEPT, when nothing but raw horsepower is whats on tap. If you don't care about idle, tip in, cold operation, or anything but huge amounts of honking horsepower at Wide Open Throttle, the carbs can take over. This is only considered for drag racing, wide open all the time operation. A tall manifold with two four barrels or a couple of Predator carbs and you can dump amazing amounts of fuel and air into a monster motor. Advantage, not streetable carbs. Don't even think about trying to drive this on the street or highway. But if you want 6 or 7 in the 1/4, it's nice.
Still the same thing. How good do you want? How much do you want to spend?

Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(
It hit me today that I may have been going about this the wrong way. I think that I should pay less attention to cost, and do what's best for my baby. Therefore, cost is less of a concern, but I still don't want to be spending 16-20 grand on just the engine.
So far, EFI has my attention. The dragging power would be nice, but not in a C3. This C3 would be something I'd take to a drag track a bit, and I'd like to be able to do well in my class, but I could definitely stand being in a slower class...thus, the whole 10-second quarter goal. I've never really raced before, so I want this car to be great for show, very driveable, and still capable of competing on the track, so that I can dabble my fingers in drag racing. If I ever do decide to pursue drag racing more intensely, I will buy a C4 and convert it into a pure drag monster. This C3 I want to be a nice, versatile car that can last me...basically the rest of my life.
One last question...and I'll prolly start another thread for comparison of supercharging and turbocharging so let's not delve into that yet...keep it to just an EFI vs carb thing...sound? I very much value the loud, aggressive sound of my straightpiped C3, and I've been told by countless people that when I slap on those sidepipes, it will be louder and more aggressive. Whatever I do, I don't want to lose that wonderful muscle car sound that catches EVERYONE'S attention as I'm driving down the road. To lose that lovely roar of acceleration, or that beautiful rumbling purr at idle.
Oh yes and everyone is saying that EFI is so pricey...does anyone have price estimate on building an EFI engine and getting it to work in my vette?
and again, do these EFI kits work with blowers? I was under the impression that they did not.
|UPDATED|11/4/2004 6:01:47 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
So far, EFI has my attention. The dragging power would be nice, but not in a C3. This C3 would be something I'd take to a drag track a bit, and I'd like to be able to do well in my class, but I could definitely stand being in a slower class...thus, the whole 10-second quarter goal. I've never really raced before, so I want this car to be great for show, very driveable, and still capable of competing on the track, so that I can dabble my fingers in drag racing. If I ever do decide to pursue drag racing more intensely, I will buy a C4 and convert it into a pure drag monster. This C3 I want to be a nice, versatile car that can last me...basically the rest of my life.
One last question...and I'll prolly start another thread for comparison of supercharging and turbocharging so let's not delve into that yet...keep it to just an EFI vs carb thing...sound? I very much value the loud, aggressive sound of my straightpiped C3, and I've been told by countless people that when I slap on those sidepipes, it will be louder and more aggressive. Whatever I do, I don't want to lose that wonderful muscle car sound that catches EVERYONE'S attention as I'm driving down the road. To lose that lovely roar of acceleration, or that beautiful rumbling purr at idle.
Oh yes and everyone is saying that EFI is so pricey...does anyone have price estimate on building an EFI engine and getting it to work in my vette?
and again, do these EFI kits work with blowers? I was under the impression that they did not.
|UPDATED|11/4/2004 6:01:47 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
Mike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)
I've been doing a little research on a EFI system that suits my needs. And I have looked at Edelbrock, Holley, etc. I've decided that I'm going to aquire piece by piece everything needed to utilize a GM Tuned Port Injection system. And with a little help and wiring from Howell Engineering, I can have a system specifically done for my car for under $2000. And maybe even add a Paxton centrifugal supercharger down the road. That's my .02 cents
Sarge
Sarge

TKO500 5 spd.
Borgeson Steering Box
Born 8/1981
Sequence #3975

Click here to see more pics of my Vette on CarDomain.
Lifetime Member #26

Bismarck, ND - USA
Joined: 10/1/2004
Posts: 380
Vette(s): 1970 stingray, t-top, mulsanne blue with black interior, 406 ci with 444 hp, racing suspension, hooker headers/sidepipes - SOLD :(
hrm...Holley's kit, $1400...no manifolds...
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1527&prmenbr=361
compatible with a blower?
and why do I need a kit if I'm building a brand new engine...
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1527&prmenbr=361
compatible with a blower?
and why do I need a kit if I'm building a brand new engine...
Mike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)
check out holleys multiport fuel injection kits here:http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/C950/C950MPFI/MPFIS.html#1 You need to give them a call for price but I should guess that the 800hp kit is around $3000-$3500. This is the one that is for forced induction applications. They say only for up to 14.7 psi but that is more than enough boost for your 427 stroker small block to make 700 to 800 hp and buckets of torque.
|UPDATED|11/4/2004 6:20:40 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
|UPDATED|11/4/2004 6:20:40 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
go with that holley kit and use this vortech kit for the super charger. It says the supercharger kit is intended for a holley 4150 carb but I dont think it would be hard to modify it for the fuel injection kit's throttle body that uses a 4150 carb mounting flange. check it out:http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=vor-4gp218-018s&x=14&y=12
in Forum: C3 Fuel, Emission Control, and Exhaust Systems
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