I think maybe you should rethink this.
Running 10's at the drags would be great but with a 3600lb car and looking for gas milage and driveability
-you can't have both.
If you want a fun ride,and not break things every time
you punch it,I would suggest looking into a small blower like the B+M. This can give you a real 500hp on a 350
for reasonable money with a 4 BBL carb.
Steve

about whether there is a fuel injection blower kit..

ask aftershark....

I could have sworn there was a weiand kit for this..

anyway.. Matt... where are you ??

I think if you want to convert the roots type supercharger kit to EFI then It would not be hard if they dont sell one already. All you pretty much need to do is buy the universal mulipoint holly kit and add 50-55ppl injectors and get a MAP that can read positive boost up to 14.7 psi. Then have a machine shop weld in the injector bosses and bore them out for your injectors and run your fuel rails to them. Bolt the throttle body to the top of the roots as if its the holley carb it was designed for. You got to figure out the best place to put the MAP so that it can read the air pressure and flow. Probably somewhere under the roots blower.

Yes, it can be done. There are production cars that do just that.

Streetable and 10 sec 1/4 mile? Those thing don't go along with each other. Anything that goes 10 is not very street friendly.

But if you are not used to racing, it may amaze you how fast 13 is. The old muscle cars from the 60's did 14 and 13. And they were FAST! Don't let the numbers and the magazines fool you.

I'm with Ken on that one. A 10 second car is not one you would want to drive on the street too much.
I think my car runs in the 13's because I pulled on a friends car that I know runs in the 13's. It's got way enough for me in my old age.....I never know which way the ass end will end up facing.
Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

What do you know - something I can actually comment on with decent knowledge (strange for a newcomer). Anyway - I've been building turbocharged imports for the past 8 years, but grew up working on SBCs.

As for Carb vs EFI - neither one will make more power than the other. A very common misconception from the importers is that their FI makes them more powerful. What FI will do for you is increase the margin of safety you can run in the engine. It all deals with the finite control that FI has over Carbs. Carbs can move air and suck fuel just fine, but are a REAL pain to tune over the whole rpm range (as mentioned before). FI makes a computer essentially "re-jet" the intake at different RPMs. One major area that gets overlooked more often than is reasonable is the quality of the controlling computer and associated electronics for a FI system. The old Throttle Body Injection systems were no better than a carb in actual performance. For FI to have a difference it MUST be injected as close to the intake valve as possible, and aimed as close to the point where the stem blends into the head when the valve is closed. Also, keep in mind that it takes approximately 5-8psi of fuel pressure to overcome each lb of boost (as a rule of thumb). So if you want to run 10lbs of boost, make sure your pump can support the injectors. If you use one of those injector calculators - keep duty cycle under 70% (I used 60% in all my work). It helps the daily driveability by rarely stressing the injectors, even at WOT. Talk to the injector manufacurer about the injectors themselves. Some don't work well with high pressure fuel (found that the hard way).

If the best compression you can run with a carb was 12:1, with FI you MIGHT be able to take another .5-1 on it (this comes down to other factors also - not just intake). When it comes to boost, FI allows you to run higher, guarenteed. On my old 2.0L it was a rule of thumb that every lb of boost made 10hp.

There is a whole science to FI. To be honest, talk to the shops that work with the importers. Having to deal with computer controlled everything - we have discovered many ways to keep making more power. I had a daily driver 450hp Mitusbishi Eclipse GSX that pulled 11s. It was not cheap, and it broke rather often (what do you expect from 112hp/cylinder in a 4200lb car). My goal was 10s, and like the guys above, discorvered that 10s is not really streetable.

Overall, my vote goes to FI. FI is the third item on my list of work for my car (behind wipers and steering). My goal is to Twin Turbo mine, so FI just makes sense and is no longer the "mysterious beyond" that it was when I first went to the import camp.

I look forward to the super- vs turbo-charging thread later on

|UPDATED|11/5/2004 6:59:15 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

You sound like just the person I need to talk to. I have just started my homework to twin turbo my vette in a few years from now. Right now I am saving up to buy a fuel injection kit for my vette and get it in by this coming summer. what is your opinion on the holley 950 commander ecm? Is it worth it to spend the extra money and go with the accel computer instead?

Uggh, this is a tough decision. I didn't go digging really deep - just what I could find in about 30mins of reading.

Holley- Better known for their "old school" products than the newer technologies. They offer the most exact stats for their system, that's a plus. However, it lacks a lot of the controls you are going to need after boost is applied.

Accel- Better known for top end racing parts, always a good thing. Accel is a big vague on the exact parameters of their system so I have to assume a few things. It appears that is a more powerful processing unit, and shows it's Windows based programming utility (a plus) and even notes that it can change on the fly (we found this very useful).

Overall, between the two, I would go with Accel. Honestly, I won't get either one for mine. I'll either be getting AEM or Haltech. A very large portion of professional import racers use the Haltech (E6K is the most common, but soon to be superceded - if not already). A lot of what makes this decision has to go back to a question you put up before - Turbo or Super? It does make a difference in what you need in the ECU.

Turbo- More efficient, no parasitic loss, suffers "lag". Turbos have the POTENTIAL to make more boost - but you have to wait for enough exhaust energy to spool up the turbine. I favor turbo's because of the efficiency. A turbo doesn't heat the air per lb of compression as much as even a centrfigal blower (which is a case all it's own actually). Another major advantage of turbos that goes unnoticed a lot - the "lag" can work to your advantage in a low traction situation (ie any 2WD high power car). Because it doesn't have all of it's power on tap right away, you won't be as likely to break the tires loose. Then once you get moving just a little, the turbos catch up, max out their boost (as you have it set), and you take off.

Blower- Less efficient, easier to setup, lower emissions, causes parasitic loss, generally will be smog legal when added aftermarket. The blower, by nature that it is crankshaft driven, will respond immediately to throttle input, giving you all it's possible power at any given time. Problem being that at RPMs lower than the blower is tuned for, it will actually suck more power than it makes - slowing you down. Due to the fact that the blower does not interface with the exhaust at all, and the air it deals with is prior to being metered by the air sensor (if present) the "smog laws" don't apply in full. The part that is illegal still is all the fuel and ignition mods to make the blower work But the blower itself isn't illegal The main problem a blower faces is that it heats the air radically when it compresses it. So you might have it set to boost 15psi, but once you take charge density (basically accounting for the air temp) into account you end up with about 6-8psi. Most blowers work in the 50% ranges. Most turbos work in the mid-60%s to low-70%s (for the high end pure racing turbos).

Centrifugal Supercharger- Commonly called Paxton style, looks like the front half of a turbo with the back half being belt driven. This is a good attempt at a middle ground between the two. It doesn't cause a large parasitic lag, and doesn't suffer the "lag" of a turbo. It is generally mid-way between the two in efficiency, but leans more towards the turbo efficiency when well tuned. The main problem to running these is Boost Control at high RPMs, and physically mounting it and the hardware.

If you are going with a regular supercharger, or most centrifugal superchargers, then the Holley/Accel are decent choices. If you want the turbocharger system, you will need the extra mapping and output channels that aren't listed as present on either one of those two. I know this ends up making turbos sound like the hard road, but they really aren't. They are also more flexible than the superchargers. You want more boost? Just restrict the wastegate pressure hose, done. You can build a manual boost controller for a turbo system in about 20minutes for about $30. That can control two turbos from 0-20psi with rock solid accuracy and can be adjusted by turning a knob at anytime. I went with electronic boost controllers on my Eclipse, so I could adjust it from the cabin to exact pressure levels and swap between preset levels at the touch of a button. I ran 12psi on the road while commuting, but hit a button on my dash and it swaps over to 25psi (tried 27psi with well deserved disaster ). The flexibility and efficiency of turbos will always take my vote.

I'm tired, my wife if bugging me to get to bed....I'll answer more questions later

Lots of good info there! I was wondering if you have seen this web site and see what this guy did to his vette. http://www.montygwilliams.com/ Also check out this web site for a whole turn key kit that is very expensive. http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-products.cfm Also I forgot to mention the F.A.S.T. ECM

I have been trying to help out Michael-Jon here with his future project, deciding what route to go. For me personally, I have already made my decision to go with a low boost twin turbo system for a small block. I will be running it under 15lbs of boost. Most likely 6-8 on street and 14 on the track. Aside from the ECM what do you think of the holley stealth ram intake for a future boosted application?

|UPDATED|11/6/2004 10:22:29 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|