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EGR Solenoid (1/28)
 11/27/07 9:39pm
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

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1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of it's life, My wife purchased it for me for fathers day in 2007 from her girl friend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.


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I know someone has had this problem.  I'm troubleshooting fast idle on my 82 vette.  Looking at all of the vacuum hoses and found that my EGR Solenoid has one of the plastic tips broken.  How does this work?  Where can I get one?

 

Im going to plug the EGR vacuum input it from what I understand it is not need at idle.  When the car warms up the idle should drop so if this is my problem I will know.  Correct?



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EGR Solenoid (2/28)
 11/28/07 12:11am
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If the broken tip is actually the source of a vacuum leak, it can contribute to a fast idle. I would expect the "Check Eng" lite to come on, tho...does it?

Plug that puppy and see if it helps...it won't hurt anything.
Might be a pain to find a new solenoid, tho. At least, one that's affordable!

Might try Paragon, or Lectric Limited...they do some rebuilding of original solenoids. They might have one, or can repair yours, reasonably. Couldn't hurt ta give em a call.

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EGR Solenoid (3/28)
 11/28/07 2:05am
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

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1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of it's life, My wife purchased it for me for fathers day in 2007 from her girl friend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.


Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2008

After the car has run a while the check engine light did come one the code was 45 which was rich fuel at the Cat. 

The tip that is broken on the Solenoid is the one that connects to the white plastic connector.   I may be able to repair that by rebuilding the tip.  I just do not know if this is a vent or if it is a vacuum source.   Does someone have a picture of this that they could up upload or send me so I could see if this is a vent or not. 

  

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EGR Solenoid (4/28)
 11/28/07 9:03am
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If it is a vent, there will be no vac. hose connected to it. Solenoid vents normally have a small piece of foam on them as a filter, but it is usually, by now, deteriorated, and gone. I can dig up the vac. diagrams, and e-mail them to you this evening, if it would help.

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EGR Solenoid (5/28)
 11/28/07 2:22pm
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

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Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2008

Thanks please do email it to me.  I will take a picture of the item and send it so that both of us are working from the same sheet of music on this issue.




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EGR Solenoid (6/28)
 11/28/07 2:33pm
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According to the vac. diagram, the EGR solenoid gets it's vac, from the pass. side throttle body. From there(the solenoid), it goes directly to the EGR valve.
I'll e-mail the complete vac diagrams this eve, but here is a caveman drawing...


                                         

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EGR Solenoid (7/28)
 11/28/07 8:18pm
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I dont know if GM still has the parts but Advance Auto Parts has an EGR solenoid listed for $42.00 aAint cheap but if thats what you need its worth it.
 
EGR Solenoid (8/28)
 11/28/07 11:01pm
tuxblacrayLifetime Member
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Since we are talking about the EGR's I need to know a some things. Can I run a non EGR intake on my 350? What do I need to do to make this work? Is it worth it? Or, should I just buy the EGR intake?

I can save at least $40.00 on the intake. But, if I have to spend $40.00 to work around the EGR issue it isn't worth it.

Here is the intake I am looking at.



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EGR Solenoid (9/28)
 11/28/07 11:30pm
jayare
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Tux...
 
Is that a pic. of the 2101 you were looking for?
EGR Solenoid (10/28)
 11/28/07 11:35pm
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You can run without an EGR. If you'll look back a week or so, you'll see the post where Ken explains what they're for, and how they work. As long as you don't have to do an emissions test, it'll be fine. You may need to do some tuning, as far as timing, and carb mixtures, but it'll all work out ok.


[QUOTE=kstyer]EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve.

It allows exhaust gas through the intake passages to enter the intake manifold chamber. This mixes some exhaust gas with the intake air fuel mixture.

Exhaust gas has been burned. It cannot burn again. You can't light ashes. Nor is it oxygen or fuel. Due to these facts, it will not affect the air fuel ratio (A/F). But it will dilute it. This means instead of having 100 % of what is in the cylinder fresh air and fuel, it may be 90, 80 or even 70%, with the remainder being inert gas.

This has the effect of cooling the combustion in the cylinder. The target is to keep the cylinder combustion temp below 2500 deg F.   Above that temp, the engine will create a lot of NOx emissions ( worse for you than Carbon Monoxide ) and it creates preignition and ping. Very bad for us and for the engine.

Cooling the mix prevents both of these. We don't need or want EGR at idle. There is too little air in the cylinder, and if we dilute it the car will idle poorly, if at all. The cylinder does not make enough heat to be a problem at idle.

At part load, part throttle, the cylinder does get quite hot, and needs the cooling. So EGR is allowed. At full throttle adding EGR would slow the car down. Less fresh air and fuel will result in less power. So no EGR at or near WOT (Wide Open Throttle)   Under hard acelleration conditions, the fuel mix is richened up to create maximum power. Rich mixtures run cooler, so the EGR is not needed.

Lean mixtures run hotter, so an under jetted carb will create pinging. Over jetting can foul plugs and at best, cut fuel mileage.

Anything that involves combustion will be a factor in cylinder combustion temp. More timing will increase combustion temp, retarted timing will be cooler. Aluminum cylinder heads can operate more timing due to the fact that heat transfer is improved, and thus the cylinder can run cooler. There are many factors. High octane fuel burns cooler (yes, cooler) then low octane, thus preventing ping. Cooler burning high octane burns for a longer period of time, and although cooler, creates more heat due to increased burn time. Temp and heat are two different things.

EGR can be checked in a couple of ways. The large EGR valves on our cars have access to the diaphram on the bottom of the large section of the valve.   First at idle, reach under it and push the diaphram up. the car should bog, idle rough, or perhaps die. If it does this the passages are clear. If not the passages are clogged.

Now with still reaching under and feeling the diaphram, rev the warmed up engine. The valve should lift up.   If it passed both of these test, all is functioning and okay. If it bogged when you pushed up, but does not when you rev the engine, pull the vacuum line and check for vacuum when the engine is revved up. If there is vacuum, but the valve did not respond, the valve is bad.   If there is no vacuum you have a control problem.

Control comes from a ported vacuum on the carb. This should not have vacuum at idle but will with part throttle. Full throttle makes the vacuum drop to nothing. Don't try to go full throttle. That could damage the engine with no load.   If vacuum responds properly, follow the line to a Thermo Vacumm Valve on the intake manifold. This prevents vacuum from reaching the EGR when the engine is cold. When warmed up, the valve opens and allows EGR.[/QUOTE]Adams' Apple2007-11-28 21:00:20

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EGR Solenoid (11/28)
 11/29/07 7:26am
tuxblacrayLifetime Member
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Yeah Rich this is a non EGR intake. Edelbrock makes them both ways. Their version with the EGR comes with a block off plate in the advent you don't want to run it. (They should just make 1 version.)

Thanks Joel for the clairfication. I had read Ken's article and several others. I guess I was looking more for the "opinion" or the actual benefit from the voices of the experienced.

I knew that back in my younger day I dismantled anything that didn't add horsepower off of my SBC 67 Camaro. Intake went and was replaced with a non EGR Edelbrock Torker. Cam, headers, Holley carb, etc. was stuck on. Ran good, but very fuelie at 9 mph. Gas was .32 a gallon and I had no other responsibilities in life.

Times are a little different now and I would like the Blacray to benefit from the knowledge and experience of my cyber family rather than a gift and a prayer from what I believe to be the right thing.

Thanks for the info bro. I have located another 2101 intake with the EGR cut-out and the block off plate for $20.00 more. I will probally go that route and retain some of the technology the General put into the SBC.

Unless the overwhelming opinion on the forum is such that it just won't matter.
Tuxblacray2007-11-29 04:28:52

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EGR Solenoid (12/28)
 11/29/07 4:49pm
79rebuild
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I love that EGR post! The only downside to runnung non-egr (if there is one) is all the unused junk left on the engine after you bypass it. Luckilly I live out in the country so I don't have to worry about emissions tests....yetShocked  You have to go to a state run testing place here so there's no way to get creative with the testers if you don't pass. If you don't have to get tested I would say goodbye to the egr. If that egr valves goes bad it's a real bummer, makes you think your carb or engines went south on you.
EGR Solenoid (13/28)
 11/29/07 6:19pm
jayare
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In some states, emissions requirments are exempt after about 30 yrs. In other states these requirments are exempt for classic cars that have restricted mileage. My car becomes exempt in Feb. so i'm planning to pull all that poorly engineered junk off my car. All that stuff on that terrific small block was installed way before emissions technology+computers were developed to achieve what was truly needed. Our cars, along with all the other brands were the guinea-pigs of early emissions technology.Geek   So, should I feel guilty about returning my small block back to it's 60's glory..???      Until the feds stop exempting diesel trucks, busses and all other manner of hydrocarbon spewing machines, the emissions from my (natural) small block Vette is like a grain of sand in the vast universe. Wacko I refuse to feel guilty about my Vette when our lawmakers receive bribes to exempt others !!Angry

I've been reading a lot of publications on these engines of ours (70's) One of the greatest engines ever designed was choked down and rendered crippled; a shadow of it's former self. So,,I have concluded that the factory (by the feds arm twisting) screwed-up a great engine about as much as one could ever have thought possible..OuchOuchOuch....over the winter months, I think I should correct their mistakes Wink
 
RANT OVER..........Let's all have a beer.....Thumbs%20UpHug
 
 
 
 
EGR Solenoid (14/28)
 11/29/07 6:32pm
jayare
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Sorry tb2k that I jumped on your post to air my rant.
 
What I failed to say that is related to your post  there is priceless articles out there for our cars, ya just have to dig.
 
One of the best articles I have come across is "Timing and Vacuum Advance 101" by John Hinckley. I found his article in another neighborhood and printed it off. Every small block owner (of our era) should read this article. It deals with problems trying to get these engines to behave...usually vacuum related.
 
Take care......Rich
EGR Solenoid (15/28)
 11/29/07 10:43pm
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I have the above mentioned article, in PDF format, if anyone is interested.
It's basically a "primer" for learning what is going on when the engine is running, as far as air/fuel mixtures, and timing. It describes what has to happen for it to work properly.

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EGR Solenoid (16/28)
 11/29/07 10:57pm
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rich

even with computers the egr is a pain. been having an egr issue with my 90 which is computer controlled. at least on the pre computer cars you didn't have any of the electronics needed to operate them. i need a new egr solenoid and there is a national backorder on them and you can't find them anywhere.Wits%20End


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EGR Solenoid (17/28)
 11/30/07 12:50am
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

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The only thing I can say about taking smog stuff off is a lot of places may exempt you from testing but still require that it be on the engine. 

Mexico started requiring smog checks.  All they amount to is confirming that all of the required material is on the car.  Here in San Diego there was a run on the local junk yards to get all of that stuff.

I would be careful of what you take off.  Now fixing it so it doesn't work that is ok by me.  If you do take it off I would take a picture of your engine before you took it off and put all of the stuff into bag with the picture. 

You never know when you may want to sell it and without that stuff you may only have a parts car.


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EGR Solenoid (18/28)
 11/30/07 12:52am
tb2k82ceLifetime Member
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Lemon Grove, CA - USA

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1982 C3 Collectors Edition 44000 miles, sat in the sun most of it's life, My wife purchased it for me for fathers day in 2007 from her girl friend that had it for 19 years. It is on the road again. I'm retired but it is now my daily driver.


Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 2008

By the way I got my vacuum connections repaired will not know if it works until I fined the rest of my vacuum issues and can get the idle down to 600-700 from the current 1200 or 1300.



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EGR Solenoid (19/28)
 11/30/07 7:12am
tuxblacrayLifetime Member
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Guys,

Thanks for all of the great input so far. I think for now I am going to buy the best deal when it becomes available(EGR or NON EGR). I don't have much in the way to contend with on the 76. I have 1 line that runs from the front of the intake to the EGR valve and thats it. I don't think that is going to make or break the perormance of the engine.
Tuxblacray2007-11-30 04:12:37

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EGR Solenoid (20/28)
 11/30/07 9:13am
jayare
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All good points....God help me I love itThumbs%20Up
 
There is another article out there somewhere that describes vacuum loss at the very edge of the carb to manifold gasket. The vacuum channels in the base of the carb run very close to the edge and sometimes the gasket doesn't cover the outboard channel enough to keep it from leaking which would be an undetectable loss of vacuum.Unhappy
EGR Solenoid (21/28)
 11/30/07 11:35am
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you can spray carb cleaner to detect vacuum leaks. at any place you want to check spray along the seam and if idle goes up there is a leak. you can also use a propane tourch (not lit of courseRolling%20On%20The%20Floor%20Laughing). start a small flow of propane and run along the seams and the same thing will happen. if there is a leak idle would go up. with the latter tho, you better hope there is no sparks around.

just another note which you may have checked if your hoses are ols replace them. on my 75 they all seemed good but when i replaced them my vacuum increased considerably.


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EGR Solenoid (22/28)
 11/30/07 8:01pm
jayare
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CoolEddie....
 
Good info. Thumbs%20Up  I think i'll pass on the propane testConfused!!!
EGR Solenoid (23/28)
 11/30/07 8:17pm
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with the propanr method you would probably want to use one of those mini torghes that have a pencil point flame as that way there wouldn't be an overabundance of propane flowing. a more precise delivery of the gas but still would be very careful.

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Re: EGR Solenoid (24/28)
 5/27/21 4:50pm
PJK82CE
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I own a 1982 Collectors Edition that I'm having the engine completely rebuilt.  Bad cam shaft, etc., etc.

Side connector on the EGR Solenoid was broken and am having difficulty finding a replacement.  I can find one for a Chevy 350 but they say that they don't work on a 1982 Collectors Edition.  Found one that looks like all the connectors fit but the bracket isn't correct.  I've checked everywhere.  Any ideas?



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Re: EGR Solenoid (25/28)
 6/5/21 9:32pm
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Curious - one would think that with all the GM cars built with the crossfire engine someone would have a replacement available.



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Re: EGR Solenoid (26/28)
 6/6/21 2:33pm
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Did you check under Camero Z28. The crossfire are the same.

Re: EGR Solenoid (27/28)
 6/9/21 9:53pm
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Just out of curiosity I looked up the 3rd gen Camaros and didn't see a 350ci engine on the option list until 1987 and it used the TPI fuel delivery system from the Corvette.  Was the Camaro 305ci Crossfire the same system used on the Corvette 350ci?



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Re: EGR Solenoid (28/28)
 6/15/21 11:48am
PJK82CE
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Any EGR Solenoid I find for a GM 350 tells me that it will not work for an 1982 Corvette.



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