Topic: Turbo
in Forum: C3 Fuel, Emission Control, and Exhaust Systems
I e-mailed Edelbrock, the dude who responded the next day said this:
Please send any replies to gsuyenaga@edelbrock.com
Include THE ORIGINAL copy of this entire e-mail with your reply in order to help you more thoroughly.
Thank you.
Gregg Suyenaga
Edelbrock Tech.
-----Original Message-----
From: Louis Iannone [mailto:thejackel@fattyslims.com]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:43 AM
To: edelbrock@edelbrock.com
Subject: tech supportDear Edelbrock,I have your #1406 carb and your 27012 intake. I havea 1977 Corvette, I was talking to some guys over at STS turbo and they have a kit they want to add to my car becasue they thnk it would be awsome to see an older car with their turbo http://www.ststurbo.com/ Anyway a guy on some Corvette forums said that the carb's seals would not be able to withstand the force induction of the turbo kit, and the jets would need to be replaced. Is this true? IF so how do I fix this problem?Thanks,-Louis
This is a picture of a carb from the carb shop. See all the specialized balance tubes. Also note the AN fitting on the base plate shown at the top of the photo on the left hand side. This is to pressurise the lower manifold. There is also a bonnet that fits over the carb that is pressurising the top side as well as the fuel pressure regulator. What you canlt see is the 2000 psi seals engineered onto the throttle shafts that are housed in the throttle body. Thats the reason edelbrock doesn't know anything about seals.
You can call these guys, but I can bet they will tell you good luck trying to make that carb work on a blow through setup. Obviously you are going to do what you want, I'm just trying to save you a lot of anger and headaches.
Keep in mind Louis, a metal to metal contact such as many throttle plate piviot rods, do seal. But a sloppy metal to metal seal will leak. The 2000 psi seals help stop this. In a normal condition this leakage is usually minor, until something wears out. You are not taking about normal operating conditions.
Some folks do install the components as you describe. It does work. But it does not work as well as doing it right. You can put larger tires on the right to make it corner to the left better, but you won't like the results trying to drive the car. This is the same kind of thing.
Pay attention to After Shark. He is trying to help you from a trusted knowing advisior view with nothing to gain. The other folks are salesmen. Will what they are selling work? Yes. Will it work correctly or perform long term? Can it work better? Will it last? Will it do what is claimed, but cause other problems? All good questions.
Most of my vast experience is in stock production vehicles. I do know some high performance, but have limitations. I can explain what the engine is doing and why it is doing it. I have a friend, Bill, who does a LOT of high performance. Bill races NHRA, or used to until a few years ago. John Force and Shirley Modowney (sp?) were best man and matron of honor at Bill's wedding. Bill knows fast. He can tell me what to do to make it go fast, but does not know exactly why. When he tells me what to do, I can tell him why it works. We make quite a pair.
But Bill does not run street cars. It's a different world. It requires different things. So it came time to choose a cam and some items for my C3. Who do I ask? After Shark. Why? He understands the what, as Bill does, and he knows the why, as I do. And he know street cars. Everything he has every said here makes technicial sense. If you choose to follow or not follow his advice is entirely up to you. It's your choice and you may want to go a different way. I have no problem with that. Just make sure to use his advice to educate yourself, and then make an intellegent decision. That's what this site is all about. Learn as much as you can before plunking down your cash. Keep asking questions. And keep in mind the sources you get answers from. Easy? No. It's your car, your money, and your choice. But learn from After Shark. It's good information.
I'm not disagreeing here with anyone. I have always loved this forum. I respect eveyone on it. ANd there have beena lot of great information, and some of you guys hold degrees in engines, and cars. And if not you have been building them for a long time. Mmost of you guys either are, or older than my dad. I'm going to call www.customcarbs.com and see if they can do somehting with my carb, or do i ahve to buy another 4 barrell from them. What do I do about my intake now? Should I step up to an RPM air gap?
I have a EPS manifold now
The carb is the 600CFM #1406 but if what Matt (aftershark) is saying for a dry climate, then It will run pretty much 525CFM where i live. I'm out in Vegas its all desert and usually hot, or warm.
The RPM air gap has the technology of the Victor manifolds, which are really good, I'm confused now.
Lifetime Member[QUOTE=Tumarr]rear mounted turbos are kind of strange to me since exhaust gas loses alot of its energy by the time it reaches the back of the car. (velocity and temperature are way lower, plus the compressed air has to travel all the way back forward to the engine, more energy loss. [/QUOTE]
actually the temp loss would be a benefit.. you wouldnt need an intercooler. the exhaust gas velocity would be lower.. maybe thats why they only get 6 psi of boost... it is an interesting concept..
Lifetime MemberMike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)
Louis, I would not try to choose an intake before you figure out what induction system you are going to use. It can make a big difference. You need to match the entire system. Just one more thought to confuse you a bit more. Have you considered a fuel injection system? Yes, it's more bucks. But some of the aftermarket systems can be custom tuned with a laptop. You can get some excellent results. And that would also make a difference on the intake you select.
Matt is not refering to dry climate. That means the carb is tested without fuel, or with fuel. Another thing to watch in the ratings. Most are rated dry. Gas flows slower than air. It's kind of like comparing HP at the flywheel or at the rear wheels. Big difference.
Don't feel bad about confusion. I look at options and wrestle with what I want to do at times myself. It a fairly normal part of the process. Perhaps you and CorvetteRacer1970 want to compare notes and specs. Talk to everyone. Just keep in mind who they are, and what their goal is, which may not be the same as yours, even though their intent may be good. Do they really understand you situation and goal, and what you are willing to settle, or not settle for. Theory vs Reality. The reality includes how you will drive it, you budget, and time.
You are learning much Grasshopper.
I have not been under the hood of a 77, but I can tell you there is room for the turbos on my 72 but it will take some other modifications to the rest of the car.
I believe that the turbo(s) can be mounted in one or both areas. After removing the factory AC system and going to a flat fire wall. This can be done with a hot rod air kit.
Then on the drivers side you would need to remove the Vacuum storage canister. That would require going to the electric headlight conversion kit. You would also need to use the Steeroid kit to get rid of the steering box.
The question is how much time and engineering are you willing to put into it. Everything will have to be custom made and engineered. anything is possible with time and money.
Lifetime Member[QUOTE=CorvetteRacer1970]the steering is going to be rebuilt with the Steeroids rack and pinion setup. [/QUOTE]
hey if either of you guys wants to go with steeroids to make room for your turbo setups. look at my thread about the group purchase on steeroids.. only need one more person to get 10% off..
Lifetime MemberI have not been under the hood of a 77, but I can tell you there is room for the turbos on my 72 but it will take some other modifications to the rest of the car.
I believe that the turbo(s) can be mounted in one or both areas. After removing the factory AC system and going to a flat fire wall. This can be done with a hot rod air kit.
Then on the drivers side you would need to remove the Vacuum storage canister. That would require going to the electric headlight conversion kit. You would also need to use the Steeroid kit to get rid of the steering box.
The question is how much time and engineering are you willing to put into it. Everything will have to be custom made and engineered. anything is possible with time and money.
[/QUOTE]
Vaccuum storage canister on the driver's side? see, I'm only barely learning my way around under the hood yet, which is sad considering the other stuff I can do. anyhow, when I look under the hood of the 70, I have a fair amount of room toward the bottom/rear of the engine compartment on the driver's side, and less room on the passenger's side. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with the steeroids conversion, anything that earns me more room for my turbos is cool with me, plus I've heard great things about that setup. Only problem is...well, I've got a young lady comin to stay with me at the end of March, so I want to get the 70 running fairly well by then, which leaves me wondering how I'm going to afford that steeroids package...I'd like to go in for that 10% off thing, and I just read on the site that the price is going to be increased to 1,249 on the 1st of April...only a hundred dollar increase but still. Anyway, the 70 hasn't been touched since I bought it mechanically...which means a change of spark plugs and wires is in order, along with oil, and the fact thatit takes me a good 30 seconds of grinding the starter to hell makes me think...I'm gonna need to do the plugs AND the carb. I've already established that the carb is leaking, so I'm receiving a power drain, and I think that's what might be messing with my ignition...since getting the engine to turn over and make some noise is no problem...getting it to run takes a bit. If any of you'd like to help me with this problem, I'd love advice. I'd need a cheap 4 bbl carb and cheap intake manifold, something I won't feel bad about removing when it comes time to twin turbo and convert to EFI. Anyhow I get myself off track. I want that problem solved, and at least my custom sound system in there and have the car starting right before she gets here for the last two days of March/first week of April. Brakes aren't as big a deal, but the fact that I can be going 30, floor the brakes, and still take 10-15 seconds to come to a complete stop WHILE fighting with my steering wheel because it drags the car off toward the driver's side whenever I floor the brakes makes me nervous. So as I was sayin, yeah I'd like to go in on that 10% off purchase, but I dunno when I'll have the money for it. Sometime in mid-April probably.
Mike
My old Stingray...sure do miss it:
(click image to see a bigger version)