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Topic: Build sheet missing

in Forum: C3 General Discussion


Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/25/15 8:26am Message 1 of 20
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chesterfield, MI - USA
Joined: 2/16/2015
Posts: 34
Vette(s): 1979 L48 Auto red on red 1971 Coupe 350 auto 1970 454 4-speed Coupe sold 1977 350 auto sold
I have my 1970 coupe just bought and in it's present state I can take great confidence in it being a 454 4-speed car due to the larger fuel line, half shafts, sway bar, and 4-speed hump in floor board. I can't find any evidence of any of these items being replaced. Is there any other tell tale signs of what the seller claims this car to be?  Also, being new to this ownership (I've only owned two other Corvettes and they were both 1977's) is there any way to procure documentation providing confirmation of what I believe this car to have been born with??  I haven't taken delivery of it just yet in case I find it isn't what it's claimed to be.  Thank you for ANY help in this big question I have..Confused



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Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/25/15 10:56am Message 2 of 20
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA
Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405
Vette(s): 1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

The first place to start is to identify the engine, is the original engine in the car ??

You need to verify that the numbers match - does the engine number stamped on the block pad match the vehicle's VIN number ??

Second - does the engine suffix code stamped on the block pad indicate a 454 ci.. 4 spd. car ??

The correct engine suffix for a 1970 454 manual transmission car would be either:

CZU - 454ci, 390hp, manual trans or

CRI - 454ci, 390hp, manual trans, ig (transistorized ignition)

In addition to the VIN number on the motor, the same number is stamped into the case of the transmission, usually on the passenger side of the transmission case. This number should also match the vehicle's VIN number.

If the original engine and transmission are not in the car and the build sheet is missing from the top of the gas tank, identification will be difficult since there was no additional engine data found in the VIN on 1970 vehicles, that information was not included until 1972.

Hope this helps, perhaps other members may post addition information to help you out.





John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!

Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/25/15 10:58am Message 3 of 20
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Erda, UT - USA
Joined: 8/1/2005
Posts: 200
Vette(s): 1973 coupe. LS4, M-21, DARK SADDLE LEATHER, POWER STEERING, POWER BRAKES, POWER WINDOWS, A/C, AM/FM STEREO, YELLOW ( 952 ).
The build sheet would be on top of the gas tank. It's kind of hard to reach it, but you can. If it's still there. It was stuck on with tar, and, will tear when you remove it. You need to be careful. To determine if everything is original, compare the vin # with the vin # number decoder here on our site. It's in research. It will tell you how your car came originally. To see if it's numbers matching motor, the number for the motor is on the block, back left side. the transmission is stamped on the transmission. Left side if I  remember correctly. Good luck. and welcome to C3VR.


Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/25/15 11:15am Message 4 of 20
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Former Member
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chesterfield, MI - USA
Joined: 2/16/2015
Posts: 34
Vette(s): 1979 L48 Auto red on red 1971 Coupe 350 auto 1970 454 4-speed Coupe sold 1977 350 auto sold
The story I have from the seller is that he worked for the original owner back in 70-71 who owned a small car shop. Ordered it with nothing more than the biggest power 454 and 4-speed with power brakes and am radio. Wheel covers in Donneybrook green and black interior. He got to drive it once or twice. Owner spun a main bearing and dealer replaced it with a short block warranty engine using the original top end.. Block casting number is dated 1971 which adds up to that much at least. In the late 90's the sellers brother in-law bought it from the original owner and took it to a local paint shop where they started to do body and paint work.  Sat for a long time and they went out of biz and this second owner took it home and intended to restore it at that point and there it's been sitting for about 5 years. This seller bought it from his brother in-law and decided to restore another Vette and sell this as a project.  I am supposed to be getting the 71 warranty short block with the original heads and intake pretty much all there except the carb. What type of numbers should I be seeing to hope and verify this??  Any help would be great..  Of course there is no build sheet since people who have taken it apart didn't give a damn about things like that.   I'd probably be paying a Hell of a lot more for this if it did have a build sheet with it..


Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/25/15 12:12pm Message 5 of 20
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA
Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405
Vette(s): 1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.

So you should still be able to verify the original transmission if it had not been replaced - see VIN # info. above.

Regarding the top end, from the information I have, casting numbers should be the following for a 1970 454:

Intake - 3955287 or 3969802 both are aluminum intakes

Exhaust manifolds - 3969869 LH, 3880828 RH

Heads - 3964290

All of the casting dates for the above should correspond (sometime before) your body build date. That can be found on the trim tag on the drivers side front pillar. You should find codes for the original paint color, interior trim code and the body build date - look for a post at the top of this same General Category by Adam's Apple called Trim Tag/Build Date info for specifics.

One more way to confirm a 4 speed car is the transmission cross member. On 4 speed cars it is welded to the frame, on original automatics, it is bolted in.

Finally - the rear axle code may also help verify a BB car. Check the bottom of the case for a three letter code. That code along with the additional numbers stamped will indicate the rear axle ratio and may correspond to available BB gearing. 

If you can, post those letters/numbers and we can help you decipher that information.

Good luck !!!  




John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!

Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/26/15 8:06am Message 6 of 20
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Grapevine, TX - USA
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1525
Vette(s): 1972 LT-1 convertible with factory air. 2017 Black Rose Grand Sport convertible.
ratray said: The build sheet would be on top of the gas tank. It's kind of hard to reach it, but you can. If it's still there. It was stuck on with tar, and, will tear when you remove it. You need to be careful. To determine if everything is original, compare the vin # with the vin # number decoder here on our site. It's in research. It will tell you how your car came originally. To see if it's numbers matching motor, the number for the motor is on the block, back left side. the transmission is stamped on the transmission. Left side if I  remember correctly. Good luck. and welcome to C3VR.


The engine number is on the right front just ahead of the right cylinder head.

If the block has been replaced, it won't be a numbers matching block.



   

Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/26/15 9:38am Message 7 of 20
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Erda, UT - USA
Joined: 8/1/2005
Posts: 200
Vette(s): 1973 coupe. LS4, M-21, DARK SADDLE LEATHER, POWER STEERING, POWER BRAKES, POWER WINDOWS, A/C, AM/FM STEREO, YELLOW ( 952 ).
It's been so long since I checked numbers I am wrong. My youthful indiscretions are probably at fault for my poor memory. Each morning my wife tells me that she is Lisa, I am Ray. Go out there and be good, and, remember your way home!


Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/26/15 12:19pm Message 8 of 20
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Former Member
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA
Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405
Vette(s): 1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.
Hey Ray, at least you had the build sheet on the TOP of the gas tank, LOL. How is your paint job coming along ?? I wish my current paint looked half as good as your old paint job !!


John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!

Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/26/15 12:28pm Message 9 of 20
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Erda, UT - USA
Joined: 8/1/2005
Posts: 200
Vette(s): 1973 coupe. LS4, M-21, DARK SADDLE LEATHER, POWER STEERING, POWER BRAKES, POWER WINDOWS, A/C, AM/FM STEREO, YELLOW ( 952 ).
It's coming John. We are painting it this week hopefully. The old paint looked terrific until I spun it through a barbed wire fence. It is going to be spectacular soon. I probably remembered the build sheet the best, trying to get my hand up there and peel it off without ripping it. I ripped it anyway.


Re: Build sheet missing

Posted: 2/26/15 5:35pm Message 10 of 20
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Former Member
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Gig Harbor, WA - USA
Joined: 10/2/2014
Posts: 405
Vette(s): 1973 L82 4 Speed Coupe - Very original, well documented driver/survivor. 2016 Bend Regional NCRS Top Flight.
Hey Ray, that's great news. Make sure you post some pics of the new paint job and stay away from fences !!! While your check book is wide open, are you doing anything else besides the paint ?? I never had much luck with reaching up and around to get a build sheet. I've got a glimpse of a few through the filler hole, but dropping the tank has become automatic if I want any chance of getting one in one piece. Can't believe something we consider so valuable was just a piece of paper stuck to the top of a tank 40+ years ago.


John Sigmund
valkman57@sbcglobal.net
NCRS Member 61302
NW NCRS Chapter Member



Duct tape is the new Black !!

in Forum: C3 General Discussion


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