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Topic: Re: Rotor resurface or replace

in Forum: C3 Handling Components


Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/7/12 10:52pm Message 31 of 47
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Vancouver, WA - USA
Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 869
Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
I was talking to a the owner of a 'Vette resto shop today and he told me the front rotors DO need to be re-riveted on to the hubs.  Even after I told him the Delcos I purchased don't have the rivet holes he suggested I drill them.  I'm wondering if this is the case of him wanting to do the work, because I can't really see a functional need for re-riveting.  I know it'd be important for NCRS stuff, but that's not applicable in my case.  If my new rotors had the holes I'm sure I'd have them re-riveted or tap them for countersunk bolts, but I don't plan on drilling any holes.  Just looking for confirmation here to ease my mind.   Thanks, Dave



 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/8/12 12:26am Message 32 of 47
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York, PA - USA
Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Vette(s): 1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top
If I remember right the reason they were riveted on was to have the hub and rotor trued before assembly..make things go faster on the line..plus the next yahoo to work on the car wouldn't take the rotor off and then have brake issues..like caliper or vibration..I think the answer is right there anyhow...you can buy the rivets from many company's...but those same ones sell rotors without the rivets..if there was a true safety issue would anyone be selling rotors without the holes to rivet them back on? I put the NAPA ones on the back if mine..they didn't have holes either.



My first parade at Carlisle 2010

Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/8/12 8:16am Message 33 of 47
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Red Lion, PA - USA
Joined: 10/27/2006
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Vette(s): 1974 White 350 Corvette, TH400 Automatic 1972 Tangerine /Go Mango Convertible 383 Stroker, 2004r Automatic
I believe the choice to have rivets is with the person that owns the car. In my honest opinion they are not a functional part. As for removing the rotors from the hub I would agree with marking the rotor so they go back on at the same position but once the tire is bolted fast to the hub the rotor is in place just as the rivets would have held them from new. I actually resurface my rotors with an old brake lathe but I bolt them tight to the hub for turning. I make sure that when I put them on the car they go back in the same indexing location as when I turned them. I have not had any issues with mine at all and thats the way they would have been done before there was the new equipment to turn them while they stayed on the car. Dont get me wrong, I am sure that the new equipment today will probably do a better job then an old brake lathe, but if the cutting bits are new and the machine is in good condition a true rotor is a true rotor!
Rodney



Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/8/12 9:37am Message 34 of 47
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Rotors do NOT have to be riveted to the hubs...period. As far as NCRS, we don't check crap like that anyway, except on Bowtie award cars.

The main reason for them being riveted to start with was, as Rich said, to make sure they were as true as possible, and to make assembly quicker on the line. It was not then, nor is it now, a safety issue. Personally, I prefer to keep the front rotors/hubs together as an assembly...something that is not possible with the rears on our cars. I don;t see the need to drill the rivets out on the fronts. If the rotors are too thin, or damaged to be turned, I'd just as soon replace the rotor/hub assembly as to drill the rivets, and just replace the rotor. That's just my personal thing. The complete hub/rotor assy isn't that much more expensive, imho, than going thru the hassle of drilling the rivets.

As far as re-riveting new rotors back onto a hub, that takes some serious hydraulic pressure/equipment to do correctly...not something most shops will have access to. Get one rivet mashed, with the rotor not fully seated to the hub, and you've got a problem that will never go away.

Thass my story, an I be stickin wid it....Geek



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Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/8/12 11:18pm Message 35 of 47
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Vancouver, WA - USA
Joined: 8/25/2005
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Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Thanks for putting my mind at ease on this, guys.  I'm going to keep them un-riveted/un-bolted for sure.  I've read a lot about this lately and it seems like it was needed to true the hub/rotor as an assembly because the hubs were cast so poorly that there was no way they'd be in spec for runout if the rotors were just slid over the studs like on cars today.  Probably explains why I'm still having runout trouble on one of my new rotors.  I've tried many different combinations of shims around various studs and seem to be chasing my tail.  I'm considering going with one of those tapered shims that slides over the studs.  Rock Auto sells them for cheaper than I was expecting ($14 or so) and they make them for corrections of .003, .006, and .009.  Anyone have any experience with these?  






 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/9/12 11:37am Message 36 of 47
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Red Lion, PA - USA
Joined: 10/27/2006
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Vette(s): 1974 White 350 Corvette, TH400 Automatic 1972 Tangerine /Go Mango Convertible 383 Stroker, 2004r Automatic
Dave,
Another option would be to remove the hubs and have the rotors turned on the hubs then install them to the car. You shouldn't have to take more then a few thousandths to have them trued. Just a thought.
Rodney




Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/10/12 10:10pm Message 37 of 47
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Vancouver, WA - USA
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Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Thanks, Rodney.  Yeah, that could be an option to consider.  I'm assuming I'd just bolt the rotor to the hub with all the lug nuts (torqued properly and equally of course)?  I'm a bit ignorant about brake lathes, though - how would the assembly be attached to the lathe?  Do they attach through the hole for the spindle?  

I could also put everything together and once I get this car on the road I could drive it to a shop that has one of those on-car Pro Cut machines that I think Rich has mentioned.  

I'm really close on one side (.003) but on the other I think about the closest I've come is .007.  




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/11/12 7:24am Message 38 of 47
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York, PA - USA
Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Vette(s): 1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top
Look at it as how much your time is worth..most shops charge 100$ to cut the rotors with the pro cut..just make sure your bearings are seated and adjusted properly..it will cut them if they are a little loose but not to loose..it will take out the bearing play with its automatic adjusting head..but it gets confused if its to loose..if they are not corvette guys pick up some piston holders for the calipers..it will keep them from coming out when the caliper is removed to cut the rotor on the car..they are found in the brake section of pretty much any catalog I've seen..I think they are under the 20$ for a set..if you have those it will take out the difficult corvette factor and then anyone can do it.. But like I said..how much is your time worth..plus the pro cut will only need to kiss the rotor to true it up and your done..if you do get that done make sure you specify that they only take off a minute amount of material..be need to go crazy on new rotors to kick that small amount of rotor run out off.. Your choice on this...you know what I have done..but then again..I got the machine..road trip??



My first parade at Carlisle 2010

Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/12/12 12:11am Message 39 of 47
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Vancouver, WA - USA
Joined: 8/25/2005
Posts: 869
Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Yep, Rich, it sounds like that choice may not be too cost effective. Probably my best bet is to just keep messing around with shims. (I just need to get out there and work on it - haven't been out in the garage since before Christmas) Road trip, hmmm.... The distance between PA and Vancouver, WA may eat up that $100 pretty quick!



 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Re: Rotor resurface or replace

Posted: 1/12/12 3:04am Message 40 of 47
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Former Member
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York, PA - USA
Joined: 5/18/2010
Posts: 1518
Vette(s): 1969 daytona conv. all original 350 350 380 4 sp w/air..and hard top
The shims you can get it dialed in fine...I just look at everything at what's my time worth..just how I'm wired..I haven't paid anyone to do anything to my cars but I think I may be in a minority just because of what I do and the equipment I have available to me whenever I want to use it.. road trip!!?? Wow that would be a long one!! You ever make it out here and need anything done look me up! Good luck on the last bit of tweaking on the run out!!



My first parade at Carlisle 2010

in Forum: C3 Handling Components


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