I got this from a friend who is a UAW rep. I thought it was informative.


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U.S.: Carmakers must tell buyers about recorders

Reuters | 9:00 am, August 22, 2006


WASHINGTON -- The U.S. government will not require recorders in autos but said on Monday that car makers must tell consumers when technology that tracks speed, braking and other measurements is in the new vehicles they buy.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration regulation standardizes recorder content and sets guidelines for how the information should be disclosed. It also requires recorders to be more durable.

Privacy experts complained that consumer interests are not fully protected and information captured by recorders can be exploited.

Safety experts, consumer groups and insurance companies have long pressed the agency to mandate recorders in cars, but industry has responded voluntarily in recent years. About two-thirds of the new vehicles now produced each year contain the device that is connected to air bag systems. General Motors equips all its vehicles with recorders, a company spokesman said.

Regulators sought on Monday to set basic standards for their use, saying that uniform safety data will help make future auto safety regulation more precise.

Automakers have until Sept. 1, 2010, to comply with the notification and other requirements in the new regulation, if they choose to equip their vehicles with recorders.

The rules governing auto recorders, which are similar to the "black boxes" that store information about mechanical flight systems on commercial airliners, are intended to give law enforcement, emergency medical personnel, auto companies and safety regulators a minimum set of mechanical measurements in the seconds leading up to and during a crash.

Under the new rules, auto recorders must track vehicle speed, acceleration, and deceleration, braking, steering and some air bag functions. In some cases data on vehicle roll angle, steering inputs, and passenger safety belt use will be recorded.

Privacy experts criticized the decision to use the owners' manual to notify consumers that the vehicle contains a recorder, arguing that many people do not look at it. They also raised concerns that data could be misused for legal or insurance purposes.

"They basically punted on the privacy issues," Jay Stanley, a privacy expert with the American Civil Liberties Union, said of the NHTSA regulation. "This is a technology that is powerful and rapidly advancing and we need to bring our laws up to date."

Rae Tyson, a NHTSA spokesman, said the owner's manual is suitable for notifying consumers and stressed that recorder information is private property that cannot be downloaded without permission of the vehicle owner.

Tyson said most privacy concerns should be addressed by the courts and Congress, not by NHTSA.

Joel, FYI the "black" boxes are already in our cars at least GM, & Chrysler have had them since 98. They're better known as an ECM, It's the computer box that the service department hooks up to our cars to diagnose a problem. We've had them in trucks for quite a few years, and don't let anyone fool you, they can provide vital information during an accident investigation. I know this because I'm the Regional Safety Manager for a Very large truck leasing company and have been involved in accident investigations. As a matter of fact NJ State Police as recently requested to retrieve information from a truck involved in a fatal accident. The data can tell us at what gear, RPM and when the brakes were applied during the data process.

Also, consider the fact that in cars, the "box" is tied in to the airbag system, and since it's a Federal crime to tamper with the airbags you can't screw with the box, otherwise the airbags won't work and you've committed a Felony.

Do you know that a person can get a speeding ticket from the information retrieved from "EasyPass" and also used to investigate accidents on toll roads. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING

warbird38951.7250231481

Yup, I've known the sneaky turd was in most late model cars. This is just verifying the the Gov'ment is NOT requiring them to be installed by the automakers(wink-wink nudge-nudge), but is requiring them to inform potential customers that the vehicle has the technology.


It is the friggin insurance companies that are pushing for this.

ANYTHING with the "On-Star" system or other systems like this not only have this technology, but can and do transmit the information to a base when requested.

When you subscribe, the system will notify the mfg of a fault in the car.  They will contact you and tell you what is happening.  Then they will direct you to the nearest dealer.  When you get to the dealer they know you are coming and know what the computer in the car already knows, before you get there.

These cars can be controlled from the On Star location.  They can move your seats, change your radio station etc.   When you report you are the victim of a car theft, they can notify police of it's location, roll up the window, lock the doors that CANNOT be unlocked from in the car, and drop the engine to an idle.  The theif is stuck inside unless they break a window. The police just pick them up.

This can also mean a end to high speed chases.  Just ID the car and shut it down.

This is not coming.  It is here NOW!  Most new cars have this.  The only reason most of this is not done, and high speed chases continue is due to the privacy laws.  But this could change.  Not only can big brother watch you, he can shut you down. Once the laws are changed.

We are slowly loosing our "freedom" due to dishonest people, terrorism, illegal immagrants, etc.  

[QUOTE=greypoupon69]We are slowly loosing our "freedom" due to dishonest people, terrorism, illegal immagrants, etc.  [/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree with this, and have to actually take the side of "big brother" on this one.

I have allready used the information in the ECM in two fatal accidents that I've investigated. The information was invaluable, provided several solid answers to many questions that needed to be asked...

...for example, the most common answer I get when I ask "How fast were you going?" is "Oh, I was going the speed limit, maybe just under."...so instead of measuring the 120 feet of skid marks, and analyzing crash damage, you just subpoena the information in the ECM, and you have an incredibally accurate reading on the vehicle's speed.

Most of the time, people lie to the Police, yes, I know it's hard to believe, but it occasionally happens. YEAH RIGHT!!!! Even the most honest person will tell a little white lie to keep from getting out of trouble. And I'm talking from experience here. When someone tells you they were going 35 MPH, and they leave 120 feet of skid marks, something is up.

A little hint:::::When people lie to me, they get CHARGED!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ECM Will not lie, does not discriminate, and can even turn the course of an investigation. If the person doesn't like it...

                             THAT'S LIFE!!!!!

The definition of an accident is "A failure in the traffic control system." This "failure" needs to be accuretely recorded, and investigated to determine how to make it better. Besides, in the case of a fatal accident, the victim, and their family deserve nothing but the honest, precise TRUTH.

And that's my $.02, thanks for listening.

Alan

I agree.  In the case of an accident, I want this information available, and it is.  If a car is in a high speed chase, I want it shut down.  If a car is ripped off, I want it shut down and secured.

In addition, the repair information transmitted to the dealer in advance will save time and money on the repair.

There a danger of "Big Brother" in this system.  Present laws prevent it.  As long as we don't cross the line, it's a good thing.  Cross the line and there is a big problem.  So far that has not been done.\

Dont forget the system can also get you help when you need it if you are lost or locked out or have a flat.  In an accident they can find you fast and help.

There are more advantages than disadvantages.  But the potential for abuse does exist.

[QUOTE=kstyer]

I agree.  In the case of an accident, I want this information available, and it is.  If a car is in a high speed chase, I want it shut down.  If a car is ripped off, I want it shut down and secured.

In addition, the repair information transmitted to the dealer in advance will save time and money on the repair.

There a danger of "Big Brother" in this system.  Present laws prevent it.  As long as we don't cross the line, it's a good thing.  Cross the line and there is a big problem.  So far that has not been done.\

Dont forget the system can also get you help when you need it if you are lost or locked out or have a flat.  In an accident they can find you fast and help.

There are more advantages than disadvantages.  But the potential for abuse does exist.

[/QUOTE]

the potential to abuse just about anything exists (just look at the internet)...

the abuser is the one to fear.. not the tool..

While i disagree with things like seat belt laws for adults on the principal that I should be able to choose to wear them,  I wear them anyway...  the info that this collects has a definite public safety benefit...  if someone wants to be an idiot and die for not wearing a seat belt..  i say more power to him...  but..  the way someone drives can hurt others and people should be held accountable.

I must really be behind the times here, i never knew the black boxes were already here.

   I do have a questoni: if there is a problem with my car when i loan it to someone, can I as the owner of the car get that information from someone/it?

[QUOTE=kstyer]I agree.  In the case of an accident, I want this information available, and it is.  If a car is in a high speed chase, I want it shut down.  If a car is ripped off, I want it shut down and secured.[/QUOTE]

Duuuuggghhhh......I didn't think about that!!  I double agree Ken!