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Topic: Is he stupid?

in Forum: General Non-Vette Discussion

Is he stupid?

Posted: 12/30/05 12:28am Message 1 of 14
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henderson, NV - USA
Joined: 2/7/2004
Posts: 715
Vette(s): 1977 Corvette l48 Custom

How is this guy able to pick up a wrench?

Read this:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Basic run down: He claims that: HIGH RPM, MORE FRICTION, MORE HEAT, HIGH OIL PRESSURE is a better break-in for the engine VS. a smooth correct match up, non-overhating break-in....

What do you think?

new77guy38716.0200578704


-LOUIE

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Is he stupid?

Posted: 12/30/05 12:49am Message 2 of 14
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Joined: 9/8/2005
Posts: 241
Vette(s): 1980 with a Banks Twin Turbo 1969 Convert Big Block 1996 Grand Sport Convert
 I would go along with what He Sez. As I work in the Marine Industry and deal with Large Deisel Engine Breakins they are close to the same thing. What we do is Run an Engine at about 30% Load for an Hour or so and then Reduce Load for 15 Mins. and then 40% Load and another 15 Mins. Reduced. We keep pattern going untill we are at Full Load wich might take as much as 12 Hrs. Notice I'm saying Load and not RPM. Most Large Engines are Constant RPM and there for are intended to only run at Full RPM. So We are taking a New Engine and Running it at Full Speed right away. It can get a bit intimidateing when the Engine Costs Upwards of a Million Bucks.....Richard...


My Car...PIC 1     PIC 2

Is he stupid?

Posted: 12/30/05 11:41am Message 3 of 14
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA
Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6424
Vette(s): 1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Louis, first remember, I have repaired and taught cars for 35 years.  After fixing them for 25 years I now teach others.  I am an ASE Master Auto, Master Truck, and Master Paint and Body Certified, as well as Advanced Engine Performance, Block Machinest, and Engine Assembly certified. I started getting paid in a shop when I was 14, doing engine repair, brakes, suspension, and tune work.

So what do I do?  I put the engine together, start it up, warm it up, double check all my fluids, make all my adjustments.  Then I go for a drive.  I give it about a mile or less fairly easy, the I nail it to the wall!  WIDE OPEN!  I wind it up to near red line, then back off.  Drive easy a short time, and wide open again.  In the first 20 miles, I flog it.  Just be sure to let it rest a bit inbetween hard pulls and not overheat the unit. This is EVERY engine I have ever put together.

The reason?  All of the things stated in the article you linked.  The guy is 100% correct.  But there is even more than he stated.  As the rings and cylinder walls break in, they wear in the cylinder wall and create a ridge at the top of the cylinder.  Anyone who has torn down an engine has seen this ridge.

The pistons travels further at high rpm, and under heavy load than it does at light throttle and less rpm.  This causes the ridge to start to build at a lower point in the cylinder wall.  The heavy load/high rpm wears the ridge higher.

A lower ridge actually restricticts piston travel.  It will slow down the operation and slow down the engine, and reduce peak power after break in.  Break it in hard, and it will perform better later.

Now let's answer the other question. "Why do the manuals tell you to break it in easy and slow?"  Answer...Mass production.  If the engine machining or assembly is not quite right, but almost close enough, breaking in the engine easy and slow will allow the slightly bad spots to wear down and smooth out before applying large stress to these components.  If these rough spots are present, a hard break in will create a failure.  The engine will damage it's self, and could blow up.  The easy break in is designed to compensate for slightly off or poor work and assembly.

The key is making sure to put it together correctly in the first place.  If the work is right, the engine will hold, and perform better.  So do you want to look  at it from a mass production point of view, or a quality assembly point of view.   Either one is good.  If you are not sure of your machinest, or parts, or the person doing the assembly, break it in easy.  It will still run well, just not quite as good.  But the safety factor is something to be considered and respected.  It's not wrong, but it's not for me.

Do I recommend wide open?  No.  Why not?  Not everyone is sure all the steps can be trusted.   As the article stated, the new machining processes are much better, and can be trusted more that in the past. Manufactures have also come a long way.

When I put the crank, cam, lifters, bearings, timing chain in my C3 it's first 20 miles spent almost as much time with the four barrel open than not. It travelled less than 2 city blocks before it went wide open.

Which is right for you.  I don't know.  That's a question you have to answer for yourself.

kstyer38716.489849537


Is he stupid?

Posted: 12/30/05 3:23pm Message 4 of 14
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KERNERSVILLE, NC - USA
Joined: 1/13/2004
Posts: 1355
Vette(s): 1968 L-71 convertible

Great explanation Ken. My engine guy has always told me to break it in like I'm gonna drive it! Another guy I used a while back also told me to thrash it from the beginning, his explanation was; if my motor is gonna come apart, I want to know right away!




Is he stupid?

Posted: 12/30/05 4:18pm Message 5 of 14
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Scott, LA - USA
Joined: 2/26/2004
Posts: 303
Vette(s): 77 L82 coupe
Well now that is ineresting, I was always under the "easy does it" idea. Guess I need to change my thinkiing a bit
Glenn








Is he stupid?

Posted: 1/2/06 5:40pm Message 6 of 14
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hey dude, unless you are sure things are 100% lined up and placed the proper way, break it in slowly and maybe if you have to make replacements you will only have to replace one part and not loose everything at once. a thought, gene


Is he stupid?

Posted: 1/3/06 2:34pm Message 7 of 14
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New Zealand
Joined: 3/26/2005
Posts: 232
Vette(s): Silver '81 mostly original C3. Silver interior, bilstiens, big sway bars, headers.
Well I'm happy to be the odd one out and park this one in my "dodgy" catalogue. What killed it for me was the "description" of how a few pounds of ring pressure cannot possibly hold back 1000's of pounds of combustion pressure etc.

It doesn't have to of course, as the combustion pressure is acting at right angles to the ring pressure. The simple analogy here is a mouse trap, where much spring pressure is restrained by the latch which is at right angles to the spring pressure. The latch itself therefore
only needs a passing draught (!) to activate it despite
the relative tremendous pressure it is holding back.

And I cannot quite figure out how the combustion gasses
somehow go past the ring in order to get behind the ring
in order to apply "huge pressure" outwards from the ring
to the cylinder wall. Seems like a total crock to me.
Just think about the friction issues involved !
... and consequent heat, and wear

And exactly how do these gasses get past the very ring they are supposed to be sealing so well with all this
pressure ?

Sorry troops, dodgy dodgy dodgy from this reader !

Kiwi Chris


Kiwi Chris

Is he stupid?

Posted: 1/3/06 5:48pm Message 8 of 14
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Port Orchard, WA - USA
Joined: 6/20/2005
Posts: 4066
Vette(s): 1978 Indy Pace Car 4851 of 6502, Auto, L-48

I don't know much about this subject, but I do know one thing..................

[QUOTE=kstyer]I have repaired and taught cars for 35 years.  After fixing them for 25 years I now teach others.  I am an ASE Master Auto, Master Truck, and Master Paint and Body Certified, as well as Advanced Engine Performance, Block Machinest, and Engine Assembly certified. I started getting paid in a shop when I was 14, doing engine repair, brakes, suspension, and tune work.[/QUOTE]

Ken can I adopt you for about 5 months

cilrah38720.7421990741


MARK
LIFETIME MEMBER #117

Click here to see my new friend P-Racer
"Keep up the Pace"

Is he stupid?

Posted: 1/3/06 6:26pm Message 9 of 14
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Damascus, MD - USA
Joined: 12/17/2003
Posts: 247
Vette(s): 1970 Conv. 350/350, Wht./Blk.,P/W P/B,P/S,TT, 4 Spd.

Maybe Ken would like an all expenses paid trip to the Nation's Capital?

 

Bill




Is he stupid?

Posted: 1/7/06 2:05pm Message 10 of 14
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PERRYSBURG, OH - USA
Joined: 4/23/2004
Posts: 317
Vette(s): 1975 T-Tops,Lite Custom work,Many engine mod. 700R4 trans. body is shaved,17" wheels bf goodrich g-force tires,heavy sway bars front&rear rack&pinion steering,550 slolom springs with gas shocks.
 Thanks Ken that makes a lot of sence.


in Forum: General Non-Vette Discussion


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