Lumberjack speaks only the truth.I can only hope to be as eloquent as contributors to this thread.The politicians rule by the conquer and divide theory without any doubt.They divide us by introducing highly divisive issues such as racism,welfare,gay rights,gun control,family values,minimum wages,rich vs. poor,abortion rights,environmental debates,ozone depletion,oil is good or oil is bad,etc. etc. etc.
All the while government grows (conquers),taxes grow,power grows for politicians,more and more money is aquired and less and less services are provided to our needy and our servicemen.The bulls@#$ has to STOP!You all know the history very well as stated by all of you.It seems, we are destined to repeat history as the quote goes due to the apathy Lumberjack mentioned.I'm unconvinced any of the third parties have the solution but maybe a very strong message can be sent by voting that way,but I need to be convinced of this.
I feel change WILL come.We may not see it in our time,but its going to start somewhere small. Somewhere like a forum on the internet,and only in a country like ours.I DO MEAN OURS.

Steve

Well I feel that the taxes are so overbearing for me. I also feel that the government will shake us down for more cash in the future. Heck its like we are property of the government and we are rented by companies for our labor and we are allowed to keep just enough so that we are apathetic. Over 50 hours a week and no vacation just to support me and my corvette! Dont take my vette away or I'll be very much in the mood for revolution.

Another thought...
I am glad to see that so many people here are aware of the big failure of our system. I too am fed up of both parties lying to us and putting on a show for the media, like a WWF summerslam payperview show. Both are exactly the the same power grubbing @^#*&*(@! I am very sick of voting for the lesser of the evils. Neither parties care about the working class. Just keep the ever growing rules and taxes away and let us earn a living And I'll be happy. A federal government's job should be limited to protecting us from other governments and out side threats. For pete sakes they regulate how much water my toilet flushes!!!! LOL!

|UPDATED|6/5/2004 10:26:09 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

cthulhu said:   lumberjack said: WAKE UP, AMERICA!! Your neighbor is not the enemy. The so-called conservative CITIZEN is not the enemy. The so-called liberal CITIZEN is not the enemy. These are just labels that the political power monopoly assaults our common sense with in an effort to distract us from their daily crimes against democracy, human decency, and "liberty and justice for all" right here in our own country. John   power to the people john!!!!!!!!!! once my wife has her doctorate we are expatriating to Italy (speed limit is 140km/h, 85mi/hr) so the vette is going to... I was born American, I was proud to serve in USMC, but now that im a little older and wiser the politics of this country tick me off. I consider our republic (we dont live in a true democracy) to be a failure. However I would stay if we can ever get John McCain elected Pres (at least until his terms are up)

If you run away to some foreign country,you are running away from your responsibilty as a US citizen to vote & affect change.What kind of country would this be if our patriots just deserted when they didnt like the military or the USA anymore!

C3RVETTE said:   cthulhu said: power to the people john!!!!!!!!!! once my wife has her doctorate we are expatriating to Italy (speed limit is 140km/h, 85mi/hr) so the vette is going to... I was born American, I was proud to serve in USMC, but now that im a little older and wiser the politics of this country tick me off. I consider our republic (we dont live in a true democracy) to be a failure. However I would stay if we can ever get John McCain elected Pres (at least until his terms are up)   If you run away to some foreign country,you are running away from your responsibilty as a US citizen to vote & affect change.What kind of country would this be if our patriots just deserted when they didnt like the military or the USA anymore!

you assume that a vote can affect change. you dont have a vote. in a democracy you have a vote. In a republic you choose people who have votes. (in my system the people would elect people to draft laws, then all laws would be enacted by referendum)

and as for what would happen when the patriots left. probably nothing worse than is happening now.. maybe the process would speed up. the decay of our society into decadent ruin.

I know the system is beyond repair.. our government is a self perpetuating cesspool of corruption. the two party monopoly is too strong. when i voted perot in 92/96 i was hoping for change. I have written numerous letters to my congressman and senators over the years and nothing has changed. no decent human being can get a party nomination as a Repub or Dem..

when you lead a sucessfull revolution... I'll come back.

One man doesnt have one vote in this country.. the last pres election is proof.. when a man can win the electoral vote and lose the popular vote that means that not all votes are equal.. and therefore not all men are created equal..

this reminds of my favorite line in "animal farm"

"All animals are created equal, some are just more equal than others"

Ill give you an example.. in our all or nothing electoral college system which has no use anymore and should be abolished... if you live in CA and vote republican for president you have no vote. if you live in south carolina and vote dem you have no vote.

getting rid of the electoral college would be difficult as it is constitutionally required.. but changing the system to allow each districts electoral vote to be dtermined by votes in that district and not the whole state is a state issue... there is one new england state (maine i think) that does this now.. in such a system california's 52 votes would be divided as such 2 for whoever won statewide and then the other 50 for each district based on who carried it..

as it stands right now CA,FL,TX,NY, and MI elect the president.. my vote is heavily diluted because i am in AR with only 6 electoral votes.

AR is only 1.1% of the electorate
yet CA is 9.7% of the electorate

either way.. in a winner takes all electoral system.. upto 49.99% of all the voters in a state are disenfranchised by the majority.

if you think you can change this.. more power to you. I served my country when it wanted me to. Now i can turn my back in disgust and leave.

everyone should read "the buying of the presidency 2004"

youll see that a vote for Bush or Kerry is a waste of time. As long as American keep behaving as sheep and electing scumbags based on who has the better marketing I'll keep getting more disillusioned.

|UPDATED|6/5/2004 11:30:25 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Why would anyone that had the intellect & the "right stuff" want to run for office and face getting crucified by the media? Well,at least you said you were going to Italy,one of our strongest supporters lately...if you had said Germany or France,you should be shot! And if we go by your example,we might as well give up,and all of us just move away,right?...I mean why bother try and live in the greatest country in history,and make it better!

How are we going to elect you, the greater evil, president if you've expatriated?

Paragon75Ray said: How are we going to elect you, the greater evil, president if you've expatriated?

Thats it?

If we'd had you two before Normandy,we'd all be speaking German or Japanese.

C3RVETTE said: Why would anyone that had the intellect & the "right stuff" want to run for office and face getting crucified by the media?

John McCain, who has made his own mistakes (the keating five incident which also tarnished john glenn) but overall is a good man and would have been a good president did so, he wasnt crucified by the media, he was crucificed by bush.. right wing extremist groups backing bush fabricated scandals to kill mccains candidacy. did bush put a stop to it... NO.

Well,at least you said you were going to Italy,one of our strongest supporters lately...

my chice of Italy has nothing to do with its support for America, I found a small city I like.

if you had said Germany or France,you should be shot!

Why? they have their own national interest, they had sweet deals with Iraq (and so did Russia) and wouldnt be the first country to prop up a dictator becuase it suited their national interest. America does it all the time. I dont blame France and Germany for what they are doing. I am visting Germany at the end of this month. I will admit that I dont like France but its mostly because Parisians are rude.

And if we go by your example,we might as well give up,and all of us just move away,right?...I mean why bother try and live in the greatest country in history,and make it better!

The greatest country in history!! That is extremely subjective. If I had to pick a historical nation whose advances in military might and society were the greatest I would say the Roman Empire. And what the Roman Empire and America have in common is their decay into decadence.

I dont want to argue with you in this thread.. it is about expressing our opinions. We both expressed ours.. lets leave it at that.

|UPDATED|6/6/2004 10:47:48 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|