O.K. guys (and gals) it is one thing to express ones feelings about their political views and yet another to make personal attacks and insults to others whom may not agree.

Please keep it clean and friendly.

Rogue Wave said: O.K. guys (and gals) it is one thing to express ones feelings about their political views and yet another to make personal attacks and insults to others whom may not agree. Please keep it clean and friendly.

My sources are highy trained board certified psychologists (I do consulting work for their IT department), several of which were Bush supporters before they saw how Bush handled himself at the debates. Some of their exact words were “he displays all the classic symptoms of a person with a bi-polar disorder, he also appears to be relapsing into alcholoism. He (Bush) is not of fit mind to run the country”. No watergate tapes just honest educated opinions from people that knows what a whack-o acts like.


Again with the Kerry bashing…. My father was in Vietnam, he still works for the marine corp and he won’t vote for Bush, he is in logistics so he knows where our supplies are being sent to. He is VERY troubled by Bush’s lack of response to North Korea and has stated MANY times that Iran and North Korea are now and have always been a much bigger threat than Iraq could ever be. Furthermore if we continue deploying the way we are there will be a draft within two years because we can not replenish fast enough.


More of my $.02



Tom

|UPDATED|10/19/2004 2:24:24 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

It's amazing how board certified psychologists picked up alcoholism from their TV sets. They must be very astute indeed.

Dejablu said: I'm not saying that W. is that much better, but we don't really have much choice beyond those two. At least he stands up for America's servicemen. Larry

finally, this is one of the most rational things Ive heard anyone say. Bush is not a good president, Kerry may or may not be worse.

IMHO either way we're screwed!!!!

|UPDATED|10/19/2004 4:08:21 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Rogue Wave said: O.K. guys (and gals) it is one thing to express ones feelings about their political views and yet another to make personal attacks and insults to others whom may not agree. Please keep it clean and friendly.

thats the problem with extreme views, they lead you to black or white thinking.

these people who see Bush as a saint and Kerry as the Devil and vice versa are blind to reality. Reality isnt black and white, neither Bush nor Kerry are saints or devils. They are somewhere in between.

when people get into this polarized thinking mode they cannot see anything that does not fit into their ideal little world they believe in. Hence anyone who has their own opinion and does not agree is seen as a complete moron.

This is utter lunacy, if two people agreed on everything then you wouldnt need two people. The reason we have the right to free expression is so that people can express their ideas without political or social recourse. The reasonable man or woman can disagree with someone with feeling contempt for them. The unreasonable man or woman reacts to disagreement with disrespect.

I think being a reasonable person is a lofty goal that we should all aspire too.

|UPDATED|10/19/2004 4:20:00 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Thats a load of hogwash.If we have so called professionals(ya right ) making diagnoses by looking at a TV screen,things are much worse than I imagined.If thats the way things are done where you work I'm worried about your patients.Drugs are probly handed out in great quantities,so the "Pros" can sit around all day and watch the tube.And as far as black & white cut & dried opinions...this is a democracy,or it was the last time I looked,and a dissenting opinion isnt an exact opposite opinion.I for one,do not think Bush is perfect by anyu stretch,and I waish we had better & more choices.But we dont,& ANYBODY is better than the Kerry machine,by far! Like I said many times,check his record.

I"M WITH YOU ROUGE WAVE--GO GO GO KERRY. BUSH IS A VERY BAD GUY! 1.TAKING AWAY 17% FROM MEDICARE PEOPLE-RICH NEED MORE MONEY 2. WANTED TO REFUSE AMERICAN CITIZENS FROM GOING TO CANADA TO GET CHEAPER MEDICATION.-RICH NEED MORE MONEY. 3. HIS MEDICAL PLAN ,IF YOU JOIN, COULD COST YOU EVERTHING THING YOU OWN. IF THE COMPANY YOU ARE WITH WANTS TO DROP SOME OF THE MEDICATION YOU NEED TO LIVE, THEN THAT COULD BE FOR ONE SCRIPT FOR MY HUSBAND $750.00. AND HE IS ON 12 DIFFERENT KINDS. BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE GUY WHO NEEDS HELP! JUST MAKE SURE THE RICH GET MORE. TAX REFUND-MY DAUGHTER RECEIVED $600.00. WOW!!! THE MILLIONDOLLAR GUY GOT MORE MILLIONS. BUSH IS A LIAR TO PEOPLE. WE GO TO WAR AGAINST A WEASLE WITHOUT NOTHING TO HURT US AND NOW 1,100 KIDS ARE DEAD. THOUSAND HAVE LOST HANDS AND ARMS. BUSH HAS NEVER ONCE MENTIONED ANY OF THEIR NAMES. NEVER WENT TO A SERVICE OR SEEN ANY FAMILY MEMBERS. WHY!!! BECAUSE TO HIM THE NOT WEALTHY GUY IS DISPENSABLE!!! KIDS WHO HAVE NOT ENOUGH TRAINING IN FIGHTING. ONLY IN THE RESERVE TO GET AN EDUCATION AND EXTRA MONEY BECAUSE BUSHHEAD DOESN'T TAKE CARE OF ANY CHILD LEFT BEHIND. HE CUT FUNDING TO EVERY STATE! NOW EVERY STAE DOESN"T HAVE ENOUGH COPS,FIREFIGHTERS, AND PEOPLE TO TRAIN IN CASE WE ARE ATTACKED AGAIN!! YAH A GREAT GUY. HE NEVER WENT TO WAR. HE DIDN'T SEE HIS FRIENDS BLOWN UP. HE DIDN'T SEE THE NEED TO KILL CHILDREN BECAUSE THEY WERE THERE TO KILL US. HE DOESN'T HAVE NIGHTMARES 30 YEARS LATER. HE WAS A COWARD AND HE STILL IS A COWARD.WE ARE FIGHTING PEOPLE WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. AFGANISTAN IS WHERE WE SHOULD BE KILLING THE PEOPLE WHO KILLED OURS. NOT IN SOME COUNTRY THAT DIDN'T. AND IT IS CLEAR NOW THEY HAD NOTHING!!! BUT BY GOD BUSH IS GOING TO LET MORE AND MORE OF OUR YOUNG KIDS WITH LITTLE BABIES OF THEIR OWN DIE!! LETTING MORE AND MORE JOBS GET LOST TO OVERSEAS. YOU THINK KERRY IS A COMMUNIST!!! WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO WANTS TO IMPORT EVERYTHING, HAVE JOBS PAYING $7.00 AN HOUR.ELIMINATE THE POOR AND THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THE ELDERLY WITH HIGH COSTS AND NO INCOME. SOUNDS LIKE HITLER!!! BUT OF COURSE WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RICH GET MORE. IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN THE PAST, AND RUIN A GUY FOR HIS WORDS ABOUT A WAR THAT WAS LOST FROM THE BEGINNING; BECAUSE OUR GENERALS CAN'T FIGHT A WAR TO WIN; NOT SINCE W.W.II. THEN STAY THERE. 4 MORE YEARS OF BUSHHEAD AND THE U.S.A. SHOULD BE IN RUINS.

Bush Lied? Quotes from Democrats About the Threat of Iraq-Truth!


Summary of the Rumor
Accusations that President Bush lied to the American people about whether there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq are counterbalanced by quotes from prominent Democrats about Saddam Hussein and weapons in Iraq.
Most of these statements were during the debate over whether to use force against Iraq.







The Truth
There are several quotes.
Most of them come during a time in the Clinton administration when decisions were being made about action against Saddam Hussein and amid concerns about weapons of mass destruction.

We'll take them one at a time.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998-Truth!
This was a quote from President Clinton during a presentation at the Pentagon defending a decision to conduct military strikes against Iraq.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998-Truth!
Bill Clinton went to the Pentagon on this occasion to be briefed by top military officials about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.
His remarks followed that briefing.

"Iraq is a long way from USA but, what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998-Truth!
This is a quote from Albright during an appearance at Ohio State University by Albright, who was Secretary of State for Bill Clinton.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998-Truth!
This was at the same Ohio State University appearance as Madeline Albright.
"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.Constitution and Laws, to take necessary actions, (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998-Truth!
According to the U.S. Senate website, the text of this letter was signed by several Senators, both Democrat and Republican, including Senator John McCain and Joseph Lieberman.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998-Truth!
The text of this statement by Nancy Pelosi is posted on her congressional website.

"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999-Truth!
This was from an appearance Albright made in Chicago.
She was addressing the embargo of Iraq that was in effect at the time and criticism that it may have prevented needed medical supplies from getting into the country. Albright said, "There has never been an embargo against food and medicine. It's just that Hussein has just not chosen to spend his money on that. Instead, he has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction, and palaces for his cronies."

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue a pace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001Truth!
The only letter with this quote from December 5, 2001 that we could find did not include the participation of Senator Bob Graham, but it was signed nine other senators including Democrat Joe Lieberman.
It urged President Bush to take quicker action against Iraq.

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002-Truth!
These were remarks from Senator Levin to a Senate committee on that date.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002-Truth!
This and the quote below was part of prepared remarks for a speech in San Francisco to The Commonwealth Club.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002-Truth!

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002-Truth!
Part of a speech he gave at Johns Hopkins.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998.
We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002-Truth!
On the floor of the Senate during debate over the resolution that would authorize using force against Iraq.
He was urging caution about going to war and commented that even though there was confidence about the weapons in Iraq, there had not been the need to take military action for a number of years and he asked why there would be the need at that point.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002-Truth!
Senator Kerry's comments were made to the Senate as part of the same debate over the resolution to use force against Saddam Hussein.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Rockefeller's statements were a part of the debate over using force against Saddam Hussein.

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Waxman's contribution to the Senate debate over going to war

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002-Truth!
Senator Clinton acknowledged the threat of Saddam Hussein but said she did not feel that using force at that time was a good option.

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan.23.2003-Truth!
In a speech to Georgetown University.

Last updated 4/16/04


A real example of the eRumor as it has appeared on the Internet:


Subject: Bush Lied??

If you really believe that President BUSH lied - - THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ AND HE TOOK US TO WAR SOLELY FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES --then read this and, if you are the fair minded person that I believe you to be--, PASS IT ON TO YOUR ENTIRE E-MAIL LIST.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from USA but, what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.Constitution and Laws, to take necessary actions, (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue a pace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998.
We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep.
Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program.
He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members
It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002


"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan.23.2003

SO NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES??? Boy! Talk about two tongued philosophy!!!