Home page
SPONSOR AD

Topic: Manually downshifting an auto trans...

in Forum: C3 Engines

Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 7:33am Message 1 of 10
Former Member
Send PM
San Antonio, TX - USA
Joined: 9/17/2007
Posts: 10
Vette(s): 82 Vette collector's edition - 350/700R4/Dana44 - Mostly stock, but looking to add more pep...
I've heard many comments about people down-shifting an automatic transmission, but I'd like to hear your opinions too.
 
I know I'm rather hard on cars (in general), but I'm not a true fan of my 700R4.  To my taste, it shifts a little too early, so I have a tendency to hold it manually and shift it myself.  I also use it to help me slow down by downshifting it too.  I may get brow-beat for this, but that's why I ask the question.  Am I really hurting anything by doing this???
 
My reasoning is that an automatic transmission just shift at certain points given a certain type or number of variables.  I'm simply assigning one of those variables. 
 
What do you think?
 
 -



SPONSOR AD:: (Our Sponsors help support C3VR)

Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 8:15am Message 2 of 10
Lifetime MemberLifetime Member
Send PM
DUNEDIN, FL - USA
Joined: 10/22/2004
Posts: 833
Vette(s): 1969 COUPE CORTEZ SILVER, BRIGHT BLUE INTERIOR 383 cu. in. 512 HP. Hooker headers w/ side pipes PS PS AC AM FM STEREO. 68,000.MILES C5 5oth Anniversary Coupe , auto.350hp
I manually shift my T400 all the time. Upshift / downshift. Just watch your rpm`s like you would with a standard.


Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 8:31am Message 3 of 10
Former Member
Send PM
San Antonio, TX - USA
Joined: 9/17/2007
Posts: 10
Vette(s): 82 Vette collector's edition - 350/700R4/Dana44 - Mostly stock, but looking to add more pep...
OK - thanks for your input.
 
I'm changing my rear end gear ration today; going from 2.86 to 3.73.  I wonder how it will affect the shift points vs. speed...



Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 9:00am Message 4 of 10
Lifetime MemberLifetime Member
Send PM
DUNEDIN, FL - USA
Joined: 10/22/2004
Posts: 833
Vette(s): 1969 COUPE CORTEZ SILVER, BRIGHT BLUE INTERIOR 383 cu. in. 512 HP. Hooker headers w/ side pipes PS PS AC AM FM STEREO. 68,000.MILES C5 5oth Anniversary Coupe , auto.350hp
It`ll definately change your  rpm/ speed. you can calculate it at SMOKEmUP.com   Click on auto math, then Gearing. Put in all you information and it`ll calculate the speed and rpm for each gear and miles per hour. You will also have to change your speedodmeter gear at the trans to get that correct too.  you`ll definately feel the difference off the line. i went from  3.08 to 3.55.  your rpm s will increase at higher speeds so you may lose some mpg also.


Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 9:13am Message 5 of 10
Profile Pic
Lifetime MemberLifetime Member
Send PM
Manteca, CA - USA
Joined: 11/20/2005
Posts: 3623
Vette(s): 1978,two tone,Metalic Rootbeer & gold 1975 L48 4 speed
The TH400 is said to be bullet proof. The 700R4, not as hearty. I run a TH350 w/gear splitter on a '78, 260 hp, and all I do is manual shift. I just haven't run it enough to appreciate wear factors or anything. I don't ever use my motor for a brake, just personal pref. I guess.  We have some tranny experts on this site who's opinions are far better than mine and I'm sure they'll be along soon. We can all benefit from this kind of education. Good question bro.


Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 7:58pm Message 6 of 10
Profile Pic
Lifetime MemberLifetime Member
Moderator
Send PM
Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20214
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
I call it job security...

If your 700 is shifting too early, you simply need to adjust the T.V. cable. Once you swap the rear gears, it's gonna shift even quicker/earlier.

Manually downshifting to slow the car is not really the best thing to do...that's what the brake pedal is for.
That being said, the only real durability issue is with accelerated wear in the torque converter, and the bushings in the trans. Not to mention the timing chain. Most automatics will not downshift at a speed that is unsafe, anyway, unless it has a "kit" in it.(Making an "accidental" downshift into 1st from 60mph ain't quite as exciting as it sounds...it's actually quite scary(don't ask... ), so I rarely recommend that part of the shift kits be installed without a reverse pattern shifter.)

Manual upshifts in three speeds can actually slow you down. In manual low, you are appying either a band(400), or the low/reverse clutches(350), that would not normally be applied. At the time of the manual 1-2 shift, the band(or L/R clutches) has to release, and the intermediate band has to apply. The band does not normally apply in "automatic" mode. This means the low band/clutches have to release, and the intermediate band has to apply, which takes time, and usually creates a slight bind. This is what you feel as a "firm/hard" shift...the bind, not the shift itself.
Then, once you're ready to hit third, the band has to release cleanly, or you get another bind-up/firm shift.
The timing of all of these actions must be perfect, or some thing's gonna be wearing quicker than normal. Believe it or not, a properly adjusted, working automatic will always shift better/cleaner in "Drive". The E.T slips will prove it...

btw...I do do side work...
(just messin wid ya!)


Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)
             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 8:49pm Message 7 of 10
Lifetime MemberLifetime Member
Send PM
Eastern Oklahoma County, OK - USA
Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 1560
Vette(s): 1980 Black L48 T-Tops
And damn fine side work he does.  If it weren't for Joel, my truck would still be sittin' in the yard with weeds around it.  Tanks man.





Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 9:59pm Message 8 of 10
Lifetime MemberLifetime Member
Send PM
Joined: 9/8/2005
Posts: 241
Vette(s): 1980 with a Banks Twin Turbo 1969 Convert Big Block 1996 Grand Sport Convert
  On the 700R4 Youn need to Change the Govenor on the Side of the Trans to Change the Shift Points under Full Power. Its Pretty Easy to do in Most cars but it Sure ain't going to Happen in a C3 is it. The Trans will have to be removed and you will need to Consult with a Trans guy better than Me. I had a 700R4  with 3.73 Gears and I think You will Really Like it just Fine. Its a Great Compromise between Accreleration and Economy. Richard......


My Car...PIC 1     PIC 2

Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/24/07 11:49pm Message 9 of 10
Profile Pic
Former Member
Send PM
Joined: 11/30/2006
Posts: 441
you do side work,joel, never come and did hubby's 350.Embarrassed


1979 Corvette

Manually downshifting an auto trans...

Posted: 9/25/07 8:34pm Message 10 of 10
Former Member
Send PM
San Antonio, TX - USA
Joined: 9/17/2007
Posts: 10
Vette(s): 82 Vette collector's edition - 350/700R4/Dana44 - Mostly stock, but looking to add more pep...

A little luck paid off - I ended up in a famous place called "Thrash Differential" up on the North side of San Antonio.  Charley Thrash took one look at my box of parts and said, "hey, I bet you gonna need a little help with that...aintcha?" 

I gave him the background of the car, my particiular rear end project (and toils), then I sat the box down and simply watched him go to work.
 
People, I gotta tell ya, this guy Charley Thrash is on of the true masters.  I watched him strip apart, modify, reassemble, and test the Dana 44 with total ah.  All the while other workers were passing by asking questions that only Charlie would know.  He would rattle off part numbers and sizes of rings, shims, gears, and such off the top of his head that would take me years to learn.  I was truly blessed by his presence!
 
The car is on the road as of today because of his help.  Ying%20Yang I am now at peace...I'll make a couple of tweaks and checks tomorrow before I take it out  on the road for an appointment.
 
RC-Kid -
RC-Kid2007-09-25 20:35:17


in Forum: C3 Engines


SPONSOR AD: (Our Sponsors help support C3VR)