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Topic: All Pace Cars found?

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All Pace Cars found? (1/62)
1/24/08 9:38pm

cilrah

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

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Well this is suchs big news to me that I wanted to start a new thread on the subject. Yesterday I recieved a copy of a Cheverolet Motor Division Inter-Organizational Letter dated March 21, 1978.

This letter describes each Pace Car in detail, identifies the VIN's, explains how each Pace Car will be used, and the disposition of each one after the race. Wow this is incredible information. Apparently there are two 78 Pace Cars out there with a VIN unlike all other 78 Pace Cars.

Trying to keep this begining post under one page, I've included the important info on each Pace car below.

Subject: Indianapolis Pace Car Date: March 21, 1978

The following is a report on the current status of four (4) 1978 Limited Edition Corvettes to be used in the Indy "500" Program.

1. Back-up Pace Car, Serial# 1Z8748S416658 (8Y047)

Specifications: Production pilot line, RPO Z-78 modified with high performance hydraulic cam L-82 engine, low restriction exhaust system, qualified driveline components for maximum street performance and handling.

Assignment: This vehicle will be used trackside by Chief Steward of the race for the entire month of May for practice and qualification runs.

On race day this car will be parked at the head of Pit Row as a back-up Pace Car in the event that the Official Pace Car experiences any problems.

This vehicle will be donated to the Indianapolis Speedway Museum for permanent exhibition in lieu of the Actual Pace Car.

2. Actual Pace Car, Serial# 1Z8748S900001 (8Y052)

Specifications: First production line build of RPO Z-78 Limited Edition Corvette. Vehicle will receive qualified production engine and driveline equipment and retain all certified emission equipment and original air conditioning system. CB radio being reworked to speedway frequency.

Assignment: This vehicle is the #1 production stock Limited Edition corvette that will be the Official Pace Car driven by Jim Rathmann in starting the 62nd Annual Indianapolis 500 Mile Race on Sunday, May 28.

This vehicle is classified as a corporate historical vehicle and will be returned to Chevrolet for disposition following the race.

3. Parade Lap and Winner's Car, Serial# 1Z8748S900002

Specifications: This is the #2 production RPO Z-78 Limited Edition Corvette with all available options and automatic transmission equipped.

Assignment: This vehicle will be used as one of two V.I.P. Parade vehicles prior to the start of the race. Keys to the car will be presented to the Indianapolis 500 winning driver at the Victory dinner at the Indianapolis Convention Center on Monday evening, May 29, 1978.

4. Parade Lap Vehicle, Serial# 1Z87H8S400006 (8Y000)

Specifications: This is an engineering prototype vehicle used throughout the production for RPO Z-78 development and sales promotional purposes. Production engine (L-82) and driveline with no rework.

Assignment: This vehicle will be the second V.I.P. Parade Lap Corvette on the track prior to the start of the Race.

U.S.A.C. has requested the use of this vehicle as their Official Pace Car for the balance of their 1978 Championship car race series which will provide us continued press and TV exposure through November 1978.

The Sales Department has approved this consignment and the vehicle will be turned over to U.S.A.C. at the completion of the Indy 500.

This vehicle is currently Engineering property requiring transfer to the Sales Department inventory prior to consignment to U.S.A.C.

Summary: Three vehicles will be shipped to Indianapolis April 14, 1978.

Vehicles will be secured at the Indy Museum with the Winner's corvette being put on display in the museum.

The (back-up) Pace Car and the Official Pace Car will be transfered to a garage in Gasoline Alley on Friday, May 5, preparatory to the track opening on Saturday, May 6, 1978.

Mr. Don Bailey, traditionally has handled the supervision and maintenance of the Pace Cars and support vehicles for the Indy 500. We have again retained Mr. Bailey for this important assignment at Indianapolis.

_________________________________________________________

I actually saw the Parade Lap Pace Car #00006 for sale on eBay. darn it, I didn't even know what it was at the time and I don't think the guy selling it did either. All he said was it was the first Pace Car in sequence that was released to the public. Wow what a buy that would have been.

So basically, #1 should be in the Indy Museum, #2 is the one from the GM Heritage Collection, #3 is al Unser's car, and I don't really know where #4 is YET Wink

cilrah2008-01-24 22:23:57

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All Pace Cars found? (2/62)
1/24/08 9:50pm

Gribble123

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That's just too cool.

All Pace Cars found? (3/62)
1/24/08 10:28pm

Adams' Apple

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Way tuh go, Mark!!!!

Your never-ending dedication to this cause is unbelievable!
Looks like you've gotten credible info that no-one else has ever had, or published, anyway. You da MAN!!!

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All Pace Cars found? (4/62)
1/24/08 10:36pm

cilrah

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[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]Way tuh go, Mark!!!!

Your never-ending dedication to this cause is unbelievable!
Looks like you've gotten credible info that no-one else has ever had, or published, anyway. You da MAN!!!

[/QUOTE]

Thanks Joel, my next impossible task is to find that last Pace Car Wacko

cilrah2008-01-24 22:37:24

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All Pace Cars found? (5/62)
1/24/08 11:47pm

mkapp7879
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Mark, great info! Who'd of thought the Museum car would have a regular production VIN? And 4 of them!

I also saw that 0006 on ebay with no mention of it being a track car. But was that a different Pace Car? Did that one have a Pace Car VIN unlike the VIN on the track car which also appears as a regular production VIN with an H for the motor.

Now I really want to see the Speedway Museum car to see the numbers and exhaust.

mkapp78792008-01-25 00:42:10

All Pace Cars found? (6/62)
1/25/08 3:10am

dwright
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Congratulations Mark and thanks for sharing with us.

That letter must have been like opening King Tut's tomb and finding a big piece of the puzzle. Clap

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All Pace Cars found? (7/62)
1/25/08 6:25am

6880Mike
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[QUOTE=cilrah]...1. Back-up Pace Car, Serial# 1Z8748S416658 (8Y047)...Production pilot line, RPO Z-78...[/QUOTE]

This one is interesting because it has a regular production serial number. It appears they pulled a regular 78 and put the Pace Car package on it. I would not be surprised to learn RPO Z-78 was the designation for the Pace Car package before the decision was made to use a special VIN.

[QUOTE]...4. Parade Lap Vehicle, Serial# 1Z87H8S400006 (8Y000)

...This is an engineering prototype vehicle used throughout the production for RPO Z-78 development and sales promotional purposes. Production engine (L-82) and driveline with no rework....[/QUOTE]

Hmmm. "Engineering prototype." An H in the VIN and a 4 for the car line series code. #006. "No rework." I'm wondering whether this one may have been used for the early photo sessions when they needed to show what the Pace Car was going to look like.

Nice work turning up the information. I love Corvette stuff like this.

6880Mike2008-01-25 06:26:17

All Pace Cars found? (8/62)
1/25/08 12:58pm

cilrah

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[QUOTE=mkapp7879]I also saw that 0006 on ebay with no mention of it being a track car. But was that a different Pace Car? Did that one have a Pace Car VIN unlike the VIN on the track car which also appears as a regular production VIN with an H for the motor. [/QUOTE]

Great question Mike, I don't know, is there a 1Z8748S900006 Pace Car out there ???

Now I also want to know, if #1 is with GM, and #2 is Al's car, where are the regular 00003 and 00004 cars, were they sold to the public ??? The search continues.

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All Pace Cars found? (9/62)
1/25/08 9:20pm

ranger3

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Thanks for that very interesting information. Without your curiosity and diligence we would have never known that piece of Corvette history. Please keep us informed of your search.

Scott
ranger32008-01-25 21:21:01

All Pace Cars found? (10/62)
1/25/08 9:29pm

Aaron1976
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Wow, that's really interesting stuff! You really should be called the Pace Car Prince, you know your stuff, walk the walk, and talk the talk! Thumbs%20Up

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All Pace Cars found? (11/62)
1/26/08 11:02am

manget1

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Mark, can you go back and find the auction for that 006 car? You can search completed auctions, but I don't know how long ago it was. Maybe you could find the user name of the winning bidder and try to track it down that way...?

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All Pace Cars found? (12/62)
1/26/08 12:41pm

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Very cool Mark!!

Thanks for keeping us posted.

By the way, I want an autographed copy of the book you write (or should write!) about the history of the PC, and of your search in locating the cars and clearing up the mystery of what happened to them.

All Pace Cars found? (13/62)
1/26/08 1:39pm

lukesvette

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Great story on these legendary Indy Pace cars. Thanks Mark!!

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All Pace Cars found? (14/62)
1/26/08 4:00pm

cilrah

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

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1978 Indy Pace Car 4851 of 6502, Auto, L-48

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[QUOTE=manget1]Mark, can you go back and find the auction for that 006 car? You can search completed auctions, but I don't know how long ago it was. Maybe you could find the user name of the winning bidder and try to track it down that way...?[/QUOTE] I tried just about everything on ebay to find that auction, but no luck. I wish I had saved it like I did with the auction for the 6502 (Last Pace Car) Pace Car auction.

Thanks Bryan and everyone else for the compliments. I'm spending a lot of time and money (mostly time) on this search. I guess I will have to write a book to re-coop some of the cost LOL

And anyone who wants a signed copy will get one LOL

EDIT: I went back to look at the Last Pace Car auction and it says it was removed. I just had looked at it a few days ago, but I guess they only stay around for so long then their gone for ever.

cilrah2008-01-26 16:02:39

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All Pace Cars found? (15/62)
1/26/08 9:42pm

Adams' Apple

[QUOTE=cilrah]I guess I will have to write a book to re-coop some of the cost

And anyone who wants a signed copy will get one

[/QUOTE]

I can see it now...Mark sitting on top of his dog house, with a tiny little typingwriter...
"It was a dark and stormy night..."

Adams' Apple2008-01-26 21:43:24

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All Pace Cars found? (16/62)
2/1/08 9:40am

guidowin
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wichita, KS - USA

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1978 pace car L82 auto, #3205, 38000 miles(undocumented)smog removed, true dual exhaust.

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I am proud owner of #3205, and am interested in how many PC still exist?

Found some PC sites:

INDY78PaceCar@AOL.com , and pbarth@mcmahanfire.com

Any ideas?

All Pace Cars found? (17/62)
4/4/08 4:11pm

cilrah

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

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Check it out, Pace Car #0007 is available on eBay. It's too bad they did what they did to it, I wounder if the owner still has the original parts. Probably not seeing it's a used car lot Unhappy

Welcome to the C3VR Graham Thumbs%20Up

For some info on the Pace Cars look up at the tool bar and select tool, go down to C3 Statistics, and then select 1978. Theres really no way to tell how many are still around, no one knows how many were dismantled, wrecked, or who know whatever else. I've even seen burned up ones on eBay for sale Confused

cilrah2008-04-04 16:17:37

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All Pace Cars found? (18/62)
4/4/08 6:01pm

greypoupon69

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That's sad...............depressing!

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All Pace Cars found? (19/62)
6/6/08 6:38am

cilrah

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Check out this plate on eBay Plate #1

Now heres the plate on the back of Pace Car #1

Interesting huh? I talked to the owner of this plate and he says he bought a collection of plates from a guy who worked for the IN DMV. He stated that special plate usually had extras made to be given away as gifts to VIP's.

cilrah2008-06-06 06:40:15

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All Pace Cars found? (20/62)
6/6/08 8:49am

dwright
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So Mark, wouldn't that make a nice addition to your collection?

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All Pace Cars found? (21/62)
6/6/08 3:25pm

cilrah

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[QUOTE=dwright]So Mark, wouldn't that make a nice addition to your collection?[/QUOTE]

I'm considering it, even at that price Thumbs%20Up

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All Pace Cars found? (22/62)
6/7/08 2:41am

cilrah

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Darn

I would have easiely paid that much for that #1 plate too bad I had to get up for work at 1 am, the auction closed at 11 pm. cilrah2008-06-07 02:41:32

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All Pace Cars found? (23/62)
6/7/08 10:31am

mkapp7879
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Mark, reserve not met. Maybe you'll get another chance.

All Pace Cars found? (24/62)
6/9/08 8:22am

cilrah

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[QUOTE=mkapp7879]Mark, reserve not met. Maybe you'll get another chance.[/QUOTE]

Mike, I got an email from the guy today Clap

It's all mine . I'm not going to say what his reserve was though LOL

Because you'll think I'm crazier then you already think think I am. I think Mike though I have issues with Pace Cars after my visit to Indy, well I do. Everyone's gotta have a passion, mines not Corvettes, it's Corvette Pace Cars.

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All Pace Cars found? (25/62)
6/9/08 8:59pm

ranger3

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Congratulations Mark! What a great addition. Way to go.

Scott

All Pace Cars found? (26/62)
1/9/10 6:23pm

cilrah

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

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Okay for those of you who may not have heard, the 4th 1978 Pace Car that was actually at Indy for the race in 1978 was recently sold on Barrett Jackson for $29K. I emailed Barrett Jackson for the buyer's info but of course they could not give me that info, they did give the buyer my cell number though. Literally within hours the new owner, the owner of a Chevrolet Dealership in Kansas bought the car. We talked for about a half hour and it appeared that I knew more about his new Pace Car then he did. He didn't even have the car in his possision yet. He bought the car in hopes to someday make some $$'s on a rare find. I don't know why but this Pace Car was sold with a scrap title. That may have something to do with the car having a different VIN then all other 78 Pace Cars. I didn't see the auction or nor did I ask but I heard the Pace Car had a lot of front end damage from extensive use during the 1978 Indy Racing Season.

So there it is, I've finally located all four of the 1978 Pace Cars Wacko

Maybe now I can get some sleep LOL

cilrah2010-01-19 21:42:27

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All Pace Cars found? (27/62)
1/9/10 7:09pm

Aaron1976
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Mark, That is so cool! I hope this guy has respect for that Pace Car. You have followed the history of these cars and got answers to the puzzle. I know this is such an important part of you being a Pace Car fan and owner. Very cool!

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All Pace Cars found? (28/62)
1/10/10 8:48am

manget1

Congratulations, Mark!!! That is really impressive work!

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All Pace Cars found? (29/62)
1/10/10 1:05pm

aceinthehole

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Way to go Mark! It's hard to believe you were able to track all that info. Now that's what I call dedication Thumbs Up

.

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All Pace Cars found? (30/62)
1/10/10 7:42pm

turbo78vair
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Mark, you have many of the skills of the great Columbo. Super job on the continued digging into PC history. It's really neat to have the PC history taken to another level. You continue to add more to our PC database.

Thanks Gary C - 78 PC replica - Franklin, IN

All Pace Cars found? (31/62)
1/11/10 12:13am

rraider1
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Great Going Mark

All Pace Cars found? (32/62)
1/11/10 6:02am

Adams' Apple

Pace Car?

All kiddin aside, Nice job, Mark!

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All Pace Cars found? (33/62)
1/11/10 7:53am

lukesvette

Great stuff Mark!! Any idea if #1978 is still around?

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All Pace Cars found? (34/62)
1/11/10 8:37am

BlueX2

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Wow, that is impressive! Some great detective work there!! Thumbs Up

All Pace Cars found? (35/62)
1/11/10 8:47pm

cilrah

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[QUOTE=LukesVette]Great stuff Mark!! Any idea if #1978 is still around?[/QUOTE]

Now that would be an interesting number to have. I've seen a lot of VIN's but never that one.

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All Pace Cars found? (36/62)
1/12/10 3:50am

Jeffm
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Sebago Lake, ME - USA

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That's pretty neat, Mark. Tracking down the actual Pace cars used at Indy.
I found #3958. That's like #1978 x 2 +2. LOL

All Pace Cars found? (37/62)
1/12/10 3:24pm

dskopp
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Way to Go, Mark !!!

Dan

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All Pace Cars found? (38/62)
1/12/10 5:30pm

ebo

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Mark is your PC out of that storage yet or still in that box?

ebo

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All Pace Cars found? (39/62)
1/12/10 10:07pm

cilrah

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[QUOTE=ebo]Mark is your PC out of that storage yet or still in that box?

ebo

[/QUOTE]

It's undercover and plugged in in the garage asleep for a long winter's nap Thumbs Up

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All Pace Cars found? (40/62)
1/13/10 4:06pm

ranger3

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Superb work Mark. Very interesting, finding #4 at Barrett Jackson. I would have liked to heard the story coming from the auction block. I wonder how much information they had. Should the car be worth more than 29K, given it's pedigree?

Scott

All Pace Cars found? (41/62)
1/14/10 5:07am

cilrah

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Indy Pace Car 4851 of 6502, Auto, L-48

Joined: 6/20/2005
Posts: 4066

[QUOTE=ranger3]Should the car be worth more than 29K, given it's pedigree?

Scott[/QUOTE]

Good question Scott, what I've always said is "Collectables are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them" Right now I couldn't afford to pay 29k for it, but I would have paid more if I had the means.

My question is, can you register a car that is sold with a scrap title? Or would this mainly be a collectable that would have to sit in a garage of an average collector?

One more tidbit of info. I recieved a catalog from the April 9-11, 2009 auction and it has several pace cars, from all kinds of races and all these pace cars were auctioned off with either a scrap or salvage title. There were atleast 30 pace cars and not a one was sold with a regular title.

cilrah2010-01-14 05:10:47

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MARK
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All Pace Cars found? (42/62)
1/14/10 6:04am

Adams' Apple

From what I understood, the actual cars from the race(s) were never intended to be "salable" vehicles, so no titles, or MSO were ever issued for them. This would lead one to believe that the only title you would ever have for one would be a salvage/scrap title. In Texas, a car with a "Salvage" title is fully register-able, and legally drivable. Don't think I've ever run across a "scrap" title, so I couldn't venture a guess on that, but would assume it is the same as salvage? Adams' Apple2010-01-14 06:06:15

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All Pace Cars found? (43/62)
1/14/10 9:43am

aceinthehole

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Manteca, CA - USA

Vette(s):
1978,two tone,Metalic Rootbeer & gold 1975 L48 4 speed

Joined: 11/20/2005
Posts: 3623

[QUOTE=cilrah] My question is, can you register a car that is sold with a scrap title? Or would this mainly be a collectable that would have to sit in a garage of an average collector?

[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for other states, but at least in California, once a title has been "salvaged" the car just has to be re-certified. An official state inspection station will check for safety issues, brakes, lights and lenses, glass, and smog plumbing.The service will cost under a hundred bucks, so long as the car passes, otherwise, you'll need to affect repairs and try again. Our 2 '78s are both showing salvaged on the title. One was actually in an accident but the other was on an extended non-operation tag and was labeled salvaged on a technicality when re-registered for the street Unhappy

.

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All Pace Cars found? (44/62)
1/14/10 7:46pm

cilrah

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Indy Pace Car 4851 of 6502, Auto, L-48

Joined: 6/20/2005
Posts: 4066

There are some interesting this these Barrett-Jackson catalogs. If you ever need some reading material for a long flight I suggest one of these catalogs. There are concept cars listed for auction in this one that are sold with no title, no MSO, and no written documentation from the manufacture Confused

I imaging something like this would be very hard to register.

My favorite was a 2008 Special Edition Custom WWII Dodge Power Wagon. A totally restored Special Construction WWII Dodge Power Wagon sitting on a late model Dodge truck drivetrain and powered by a Turbo Cummins Diesel engine. It is titled as a 0000 Special Construction. Wow what a georgous truck.

Okay getting off subject, more Pace Car info to come Wink

cilrah2010-01-14 19:47:48

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MARK
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"Keep up the Pace"

All Pace Cars found? (45/62)
1/14/10 7:46pm

greypoupon69

Hey Mark, Great job! Can I call you Columbo now?

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All Pace Cars found? (46/62)
1/19/10 8:42pm

cilrah

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Port Orchard, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Indy Pace Car 4851 of 6502, Auto, L-48

Joined: 6/20/2005
Posts: 4066

[QUOTE=greypoupon69]Hey Mark, Great job! Can I call you Columbo now?
[/QUOTE]

Sure, why not LOL

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MARK
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"Keep up the Pace"

All Pace Cars found? (47/62)
6/17/11 8:28am

hunt4cleanair
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MYRTLE BEACH, SC - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Silver Anniversary NCRS Five-Star Bowtie 50th Corvette Anniversary Display, Nashville, TN 1978 Pace Car VIN 2324 L82/M21

Joined: 10/16/2002
Posts: 82

[QUOTE=cilrah][QUOTE=mkapp7879]Now I also want to know, if #1 is with GM, and #2 is Al's car, where are the regular 00003 and 00004 cars, were they sold to the public ??? The search continues.[/QUOTE]

I'll be visiting Pace Car Serial# 1Z8748S900003 next week!

What information would you like?

All Pace Cars found? (48/62)
6/17/11 10:03am

Adams' Apple

Tom!! Good to see ya back on the forum.

Long time no see!
I'm sure any info you could post on #3 would be greatly appreciated. I think just verifying that it exists would be a great start, as well as maybe what state is lives in these days. No personal info on the owner, of course.
Are there any really stand-out differences in it compared to a "regular" '78 Pacer?
Where has it been hiding all this time?
Any neat stories about it?
Was it actually sold thru normal, dealer channels, or did it go to someone "important"?
You know...just anything!

Happy to see you back! Clap

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All Pace Cars found? (49/62)
6/17/11 10:29am

Thanks. Well I recalled this thread and knew this was a pretty special opportunity so felt compelled to contribute, recognizing this group would be particular interested in the story. I'll keep the group posted and your questions have started a nice interview list of questions.

Oh...I did get a chance to look at #2303 this past spring at Hendrick's Motorsports in Charlotte. Another low mileage unit, L82, M38 unit.

All Pace Cars found? (50/62)
6/20/11 11:29am

GR8WYT

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Spring, TX - USA

Vette(s):
1978 Silver Anniversary Pace Car (L82)

Joined: 10/6/2010
Posts: 66

Thanks for the effort and information. I haven't got a clue as to where my pace car 1Z8748S900625 fits into the scheme but I believe the information for mine is that it was built in April 1978. sold by a dealer in N Dakota and went through the fog until it ended up in Albuquerque in 1994 and came to me in 2010. It does not have the decals but is presently in the black/silver paint scheme. I am planning to repaint the car in an a;;-white PPG polyurethane used by Jim Hall for his Chaparrals. Seems fitting as Al Unser won the 78 Indy 500 in a Hall entered car (Lola I think).

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Tom Yarbrough / GR8WYT

All Pace Cars found? (51/62)
6/21/11 3:28am

[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]Tom!! Good to see ya back on the forum.

Yep, its 00003! Checked VIN and tranny derivative which match up nicely. It has had a repaint but chassis is very nice with some original factory markings...like frame stencil.

[quote]Are there any really stand-out differences in it compared to a "regular" '78 Pacer?[/quote]

I did not spot anything unique about this one compared to all others I've seen. And with predecessors, should not expect any.

[quote]Where has it been hiding all this time?[/quote]

Its history is sketchy. The owner has not had time to go back and trace it but they've had it for some time.

[quote]Was it actually sold thru normal, dealer channels, or did it go to someone "important"?
You know...just anything! [/quote]

From the paperwork I saw, looks like it floated around among private collectors.

I did figure out that the factory would use yellow grease pencil and mark the last VIN digit or two digits on the rear crossmember to associate this chassis buildup with the body, going thru trim on the other side of the factory. So, this was marked "E3." My silver anniversary 9041 has the digits E41 marked on it. Also, CB was marked on the driver's side floorboard while a three digit number was marked on the passenger side floorboard. These were both underneath. I believe the three digit number is a line item production reference on the schedule for that particular production day. This can only be confirmed if an owner has a build sheet and the grease marking is still visible on the floorboard. The schedule reference on the build sheet is in the upper left hand corner.

More later

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