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Topic: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

in Forum: C3 Handling Components

Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/4/12 10:36pm Message 1 of 36
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Vancouver, WA - USA
Joined: 8/25/2005
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Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
This is a bit of a continuation from my last thread ( http://www.c3vr.com/vrforums/master-cylinder-question_message421197.html ) but this question is more specific to brake bleeding so I started a new thread.  Anyway, I can't seem to get the fronts bled properly - they just spit a little fluid, no solid flow at all, no matter how many times I do the pump and bleed.  (I asked my wife to do some pedal pushing tonight)   I've also supplied the bleeder with a generous vacuum source and same thing - it will pull some fluid through but not much.  It almost seems like there is a blockage somewhere.  Could this have anything to do with the proportioning valve?  I didn't touch it, but did disconnect, remove, and re-install the line that goes from the valve to the right front wheel.  

Other stuff I've done:

New (reman) master cyl (could that be the problem?  I did bench bleed)
Rebuilt front calipers with new seals
New rubber lines in front

Stuff I have not done:

All original steel lines, all in good shape (at least outside)
Did not touch back calipers.  Pads are good and no signs of leakage

Backs seem to bleed out fine (inboard and outboard) - nice solid flow when bleeder is opened.  But pedal is still soft and goes all the way to the floor.  




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
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Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/5/12 5:12am Message 2 of 36
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HOWELL, NJ - USA
Joined: 5/18/2004
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Vette(s): 1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.
Sometimes the threads around the bleeders will allow air back into the system. I had to put some thread sealer on mine and the bubbles stopped - solid stream of fluid. Also make sure not to open them too far. 1/4 turn should do it. 

If that's not it and they are new calipers, you have to have something going on further up the line Dave.

Let us know how you progress.

Good luck

Paul



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Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/5/12 9:45am Message 3 of 36
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Newark, DE - USA
Joined: 7/26/2004
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Vette(s): 1968 Conv, 454HO,500HP-600TQ, TKO-600,3:70 HD rear,hotrod air, custom paint & suspension,1973 Ruby Red,T-top, 383 Stroker, TK)-500,frame off restro, 1967 Dodge Coronet, 340 stroker to 406, Dana 60
Disconnect the line from the M/C to the pro valve if the break fluid flows pretty good it's probably the valve, which I would & do replace on theses old C-3's. 
Alan



                                               

Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/5/12 10:29am Message 4 of 36
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knotacare said: Disconnect the line from the M/C to the pro valve if the break fluid flows pretty good it's probably the valve, which I would & do replace on theses old C-3's. 
Alan

Dave, remember the service manual mentioned about forcing open the proportioning valve. knotacare might have a point about the valve being bad or even plugged/restricted. 


corvette440hp

Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/5/12 7:08pm Message 5 of 36
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
I'd be leanin towards the proportioning valve, too. It's possible that it has flopped. SOMETIMES, you can pop the brake pedal HARD, and get the valve centered again.
Does your red brake light in the dash work, and if it does, is it staying ON?



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Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/5/12 10:52pm Message 6 of 36
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Vancouver, WA - USA
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Vette(s): 1976 Silver/Firethorn. L48, 4spd. Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.
Thanks, guys.  I'll focus my attention on the pro valve next.  Any suggested vendors for a replacement?  I've even had a hard time finding one on some of the online catalogs - I guess some call it a "distribution block" others "proportioning valve" and still others "proportion valve".  Would love to know where others have purchased theirs.  

Joel, the brake light works as it should - comes on when the e-brake is pulled up, but is off otherwise.  I just went out and hit the pedal hard a few times, but no change.  Any thoughts?  Should I still be looking at the pro valve?  




 

1976 Silver/Firethorn.  L48, 4spd.  Original 2 bolt, vortec heads, 9.4:1 CR, Speed Pro Cam: 224/224@0.050, 112 LSA, Eagle Steel Crank.

Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/6/12 7:42am Message 7 of 36
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daveo76 said: Thanks, guys.  I'll focus my attention on the pro valve next.  Any suggested vendors for a replacement?  I've even had a hard time finding one on some of the online catalogs - I guess some call it a "distribution block" others "proportioning valve" and still others "proportion valve".  Would love to know where others have purchased theirs.  

Joel, the brake light works as it should - comes on when the e-brake is pulled up, but is off otherwise.  I just went out and hit the pedal hard a few times, but no change.  Any thoughts?  Should I still be looking at the pro valve?  
Dave here is a link to what I used.....................

http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corvette-brake-proportioning-valve-1974-1977.html




corvette440hp

Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/6/12 10:16am Message 8 of 36
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Vette(s): 1968 Conv, 454HO,500HP-600TQ, TKO-600,3:70 HD rear,hotrod air, custom paint & suspension,1973 Ruby Red,T-top, 383 Stroker, TK)-500,frame off restro, 1967 Dodge Coronet, 340 stroker to 406, Dana 60

                                               

Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/6/12 5:17pm Message 9 of 36
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knotacare said: This is where I get mine
They have a chrome one too which I would not use.
Alan

I bought the brass one, but I like your price better.


corvette440hp

Re: Brake Bleeding: What am I doing wrong?

Posted: 6/6/12 5:37pm Message 10 of 36
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Dave, I just got done bleeding my brake and my blood.......actually my sweat. I would rather pull the engine/transmission and body than do the brakes again. I did them myself.....tough to do. I had previuosly bench bled my new master cylinder in the vise. I have completely new stainless steel brake lines and new brass diverting blocks. Also all new stainless steel flex hoses. I had flow to the front brakes. There are actually two bleeders on all 4 calipers. The rear brakes I couldn't get any flow. I even opened the connection off of the proportioning valve. I then connected up a pressure power bleeder to the MC. I pumped up the pressure to 15 psig. I left the bleeders completely out of the rear calipers. I finially got flow to the rear by pumping the pedal. I'm using dot 5 silicone fluid (purple). I put the Russell check valve bleeders back in and opened individually each one less than a quarter turn. I pumped slowly in on the brake petal and held it down for at least 10 seconds. I did this for all 4 bleeders in the rear about twelve time apiece. I then went back to the fronts and repeated the same procedure. I almost filled a Mason jar with the purged brake fluid. When I came into the house my wife had to dry off my sweat when she saw me (she's a keeper). Well anyhow that's about the worst job of my project so far. I sure hope everything works out for you. Oh and by the way the pedal is as hard as a rockThumbs Up


corvette440hp

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