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Topic: SBC 400 Engines

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SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 1/4/09 6:16pm Message 1 of 26
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HOWELL, NJ - USA
Joined: 5/18/2004
Posts: 6812
Vette(s): 1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.
Hi there team,
 
Well, took the baby out for some exercise today after some friends passed by. The 406 is one S T R O N G runner!! Thumbs%20Up
 
A question though. When changing a valve cover gaket, I noticed a white milky film on the inside of the passenger side valve cover and some condensation around the PCV grommet and PCV valve itself. Hmmmm - there is good vacuum drawing through the pcv on the passenger side of the engine and there is a breather on the right hand side.
 
While the engine was running at operating temperature, I pulled the PCV to find that steam was coming out of the grommet. Now I know the whole thing about steam holes needing to be drilled for 400s and based on me late model Brodix heads, Brodix claims that the holes do not need to be drilled.
 
So, my question is, is this normal steam escaping based on the air pockets in the 400 cylinder walls? Or do I have a crank case pressure issue that the PCV sustem is not correcting?
 
I'm nervous about damaging a brand new engine (with a seasoned block)Shocked.
 
Any ideas from those eperienced with 400s is greatly appreciated.
 
Paul

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SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 1/4/09 6:41pm Message 2 of 26
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Belvidere, IL - USA
Joined: 10/24/2004
Posts: 438
Vette(s): 1977 Black T-Top ZZ4 5Sp 16in Wheels
Luke, from your picture. I see only breather caps to vent. On my car, I vented pass. side to bottom of carb. base and drivers side to carb. That should take care of heat and moisture build up. You might have to put check valves in your collectors and vent to them. I know my race buddies do, to keep pressure down. Good Luck!

SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 1/4/09 7:03pm Message 3 of 26
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HOWELL, NJ - USA
Joined: 5/18/2004
Posts: 6812
Vette(s): 1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.
Thanks Dick. The passenger side is actually hooked up to manifold vacuum and the drivers side has a breather to allow fresh air back in. Never heard of check valves in exhaust collecters? I'll look into that.

Thanks again!

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SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 1/4/09 9:06pm Message 4 of 26
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
The check valves in the exhaust collector is method of crankcase evacuation, but it really only works in high rpm situations, such as racing. The check valve is screwed onto a pipe that is welded into the collector on a 45 degree angle(very important), at 1/2 the diameter of the collector. So, on a 3" collector, the pipe would be inserted 1 1/2" into the collector. At high rpm, the exhaust flowing thru the collector creates a vacuum, and that pulls the excess blow-by out of the crankcase...and makes the exhaust smoke a bit, too!
Not really recommended on a street car, even tho I've done it meself...
However...if you are actually seeing steam coming out of the valve cover, something is amiss. Are you sure it's not just oil blow-by?
I don't know what your heads looked like on the chamber side, but if you're running a 400 block, the heads have to have the steam holes. Perhaps Brodix heads already have those provisions, which is why they say you don't need to drill??
Running non-drilled heads on a 400 block will cause it to overheat fairly quickly...like before the cam even gets broke in...

A small amount of condensation is to be expected if it hasn't been run long enough to draw it out via the PCV system.
Also, a fresh engine will have more blowby than usual, until the rings take a good seat, and, depending on the type of rings, ring tension, and cylinder wall finish, it may be perfectly normal for the set-up. Just be sure there is sufficient vacuum at the PCV while running at speed, and make sure the PCV is clean. It may be the wrong PCV, too. Contrary to popular belief, one size does not fit all!

I would suggest, if the engine is not showing any signs of overheating, and you're not losing any coolant, then you just need to drive it and get the thing broke in, and not worry too much about blow-by at this point.
I have a tool that sits on the valve cover grommet that measures crankcase pressure. You pull the PCV out, and stick this thing on there, and there's a little ball that floats around. It shows how much crankcase pressure there is. I don't know if they are still available anywhere...I haven't seen one, or even looked. I've had mine for prolly 30 years or so....

Take the breather off of the driver side, and stick your finger in the hole(no jokes, please). With the engine running, see how long it takes to pull a strong vacuum on your finger. If the engine is sealed well, it should hold your finger in there purty tight, and "pop" as you pull it out.(again, no jokes, please...)
You may have a seal that is not sealing well, and that will keep the PCV system from working properly. Even a loose dipstick can cause this..

hth

Joel Adams
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SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 1/5/09 9:56am Message 5 of 26
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Mounds View, MN - USA
Joined: 5/24/2007
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Vette(s): 70 LT1 coupe, 69 350 HP coupe, 69 390HP 427 coupe, 71 LS5 convert, 85 coupe, 93 coupe
I agree with Joel.  If you have enough water in the crankcase to turn milky, there could be something wrong internally.  Either a bad head gasket or intake gasket could be leaking water into the crankcase.  Thoroughly warm up your engine to see if you just have condensation.  But keep checking your oil during this warm up.  If the oil in the crankcase is milky, you are in danger of hurting bearings. 

The exhaust breathers only worked at high RPM with open headers, like Joel said.  With closed exhaust, you might actually blow exhaust back into the engine if the check valve doesn't seal tightly. 

And I am surprised that Brodix would say you don't need steam holes, especially with a high HP engine, which generates higher combustion temperatures.  Possibly they misunderstood the question.  But that heat concentrated right next to the combustion chamber seems like an invitation for gasket damage.

Good Luck
Larry

SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 1/5/09 6:37pm Message 6 of 26
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HOWELL, NJ - USA
Joined: 5/18/2004
Posts: 6812
Vette(s): 1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.
Thanks Joel and Larry. What I can tell you is that the oil is clean, I am not losing water and the engine is not overheating. The was a slight film on the underside of the pass side valve cover...
 
I think Joel may be onto something with the engine not fully broken in yet...there's only a few hours on the motor at most...
 
I've read several articles about blow by on fresh engines until the rings properly seat...
 
What would you guys think it would take for the rings to seat themselves and this condition to go away if that's what it is?
 
Thanks again,
 
Paul
 
LukesVette2009-01-05 18:38:15

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SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 1/5/09 7:55pm Message 7 of 26
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20213
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Drive it...
Drive it at different speeds...don't drive at a steady pace...keep the rpms moving up/down, as in speed up/slow down. Don't allow it to get too hot(over 200), either, until you get some miles on it, say, 500 or so.

Another thing....what you might be seeing is the assembly lube. Depending on what was used, some of that stuff will stick to the VC once it gets washed thru the oiling system, tho most of it should be caught by the filter. The lube on the pushrods can blow onto the bottom of the valve covers. If white Lubriplate was used, that's prolly what that stuff is.
Even so, a small amount of condensation wouldn't really worry me, unless it was there every time I drove it.
Drive, and enjoy the fruits of yer labor...

Joel Adams
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SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 1/6/09 4:40am Message 8 of 26
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HOWELL, NJ - USA
Joined: 5/18/2004
Posts: 6812
Vette(s): 1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.
sounds like a plan Joel. I'm also going to change the oil jest in case any more residual assembly lube is floatin around the there.

Thanks again all for your thoughts.

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SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 2/8/09 5:56am Message 9 of 26
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HOWELL, NJ - USA
Joined: 5/18/2004
Posts: 6812
Vette(s): 1979, Targa Blue (72 Color), Pace Car rear spoiler, L88 hood, Dark blue factory interior, 525HP 406, HD 700R4, 370 gears,Steeroids, composite rear spring, TT IIs wrapped in T/A Radials.
Sad update folks. Cry
 
Engine backfired through the carb yesterday and now will not start. Sounds a little different now when cranking - thought I busted a new timing chain so I took off the valve covers  to see if the valves were moving with the starter cranking - they were....thank goodness for small favors
 
Found antifreeze sitting in the corner of the D/S head!!Dead Not sure where its coming from (head stud?)...but I guess that was the "steam" I talked about earlier in this thread.
 
Slept crappy and PO'd as all heck. Too much $ invested in the engine for these problems.Ouch
 
Trying to figure things out this morning...Need one of the better doctors to consult with...Confused 
 
Paul
LukesVette2009-02-08 07:08:42

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SBC 400 Engines

Posted: 2/8/09 7:16am Message 10 of 26
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Flanders, NJ - USA
Joined: 1/27/2004
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Vette(s): 1982 Black, ZZ4, Hooker Side Pipes, 3.55 Rear, Rebuilt & upgraded 700R4, All new suspension, brakes, & new Charcoal interior.
Man that's just not right. I hope it's something minor. Do you think it's a head gasket? If you need some extra hands, let me know, I'll be glad to come down and help you out.
Dave

 

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