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Topic: 1977 Proportioning Valve

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1977 Proportioning Valve (1/12)
 11/8/07 2:20pm
fowler12
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Toledo, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1977 auto.L48 383 stroker


Joined: 2/22/2007
Posts: 175

I am having problems getting pressure back on the brake pedal after bleeding the brakes.  Can this be caused by a bad proportioning valve and if so what do i need to do from here.  Thanks for all the help. I am stranded and need a life vest!
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1977 Proportioning Valve (2/12)
 11/8/07 6:17pm
neuroclast
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Charleston AFB, SC - USA

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1979 Cream Beige Coupe w/383 & 700R4


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Posts: 111

From my experience it tends to be air in the lines. These cars are a b!*ch to bleed properly. You need to also bleed them weird, which the order is: drivers back, pass back, drivers front, pass front.
 
I had a ton of problems with mine, and I'm going to just get a pressure bleeder.
 
As for the valve, you should be able to just slam on the brakes really really hard to center the valve if it was actually offset. If it was actually bad I'm not sure, I wouldn't think it could really do anything besides only give you braking in front or back instead of both if it was bad though? Well, unless it was leaking, but you would see that.
 
Hope that helps any, and good luck.
 
-Josh
Sarge812007-11-09 19:23:19
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1977 Proportioning Valve (3/12)
 11/8/07 8:16pm
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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Did you have a good pedal before? Did you replace anything, like pads, or calipers?
If so, then you prolly do have some air in the system.

The p-valve can flop to one end if the brakes are not bled properly. If it does, you will only have brakes on one end or the other...front or rear. It will normally re-set itself if you do hit the pedal fairly hard, quickly. Does your "Brake" light come on? If it comes on when you press the pedal, but then goes back off, there is air in the system, or the master may be bad, or have air in it.


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1977 Proportioning Valve (4/12)
 11/9/07 5:29am
fowler12
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Toledo, OH - USA

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1977 auto.L48 383 stroker


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I did have low pedal before but that was because I found out my right front caliper was leaking.  I replaced both front calipers and hoses on it and put new pads on the front.  I did not bleed the brakes in the sequence as described above.  The proportioning valve does appear to be leaking so I will try to bleed the brakes again in the proper manner.  Thank you for all of your help, I appreciate it!
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1977 Proportioning Valve (5/12)
 11/9/07 6:55am
lbbounder
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Florence, KY - USA

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1977 Coupe; yellow, 4 speed, one option car with original engine


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For what it's worth I recently replaced a trailing arm assembly and when replacing the caliper, (with my son in the car as the brake pedal management assistant), I first tried to pump up the brakes and open the valve to let the air out and basically got nowhere. What worked for me was to open the valve on the downward movement of the pedal then close the valve for the upward pedal travel. Took a few strokes and trips to the master cylinder to add fluid but now the pedal is solid and the brakes are good.

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1977 Proportioning Valve (6/12)
 11/9/07 7:34am
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


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"Pumping" the brake pedal really only aerates the brake fluid...not a good thing when trying to bleed them!
With the pedal up, open the bleeder screw, then press the pedal down. Once it is all the way down, close the bleeder, and release the pedal slowly.(same method as described above). This works the best, is you have to manually bleed them with the pedal.
Tapping on the caliper with a plastic, or rubber mallet will also help dislodge any air bubbles stuck to the calipers, especially on the rears.
Of course, a pressure bleeder is the absolute best way, but not everyone has one. They are getting cheaper now, tho, so they are a bit more affordable, and well worth the investment for anyone with a Corvette with discs.

I have to say, my sequence for bleeding is not the same as Josh's...the normal procedure is:
RR-LR-RF-LF...you want to bleed the furtherest caliper from the master first. This lessens the chance of having trapped air in the crossover line, that may wind up just floating from one side to the other, and never really getting out.

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Joel Adams
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1977 Proportioning Valve (7/12)
 11/9/07 8:22am
sfindlan
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Badin Lake, NC - USA

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1979 Red L-48 Corvette with Doeskin interior, 3-speed automatic, 3.55 rear; 1986 L-98 Coupe, 4+3 Manual - Satin Black and Purple (SCCA TT/Hillclimb Car); 1993 White LT-1 Coupe, Black Interior, 6-speed


Joined: 4/21/2004
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I used the same sequence Joel recommended and it worked fine.  I had the wife pump the brakes and I did the bleed screw management.  You need to close the valve before you let the pedal up to keep air out of the system.  I have a pressure bleeder, but have done just as well with the 4.99 brake bleed kit at autozone.  Little tygon plastic hose and bottle with a  magnet that make it easy.  I like the clear tubing as I can see the color of fluid and check for bubbles/debris in the system.
 
I just replaced all 4 calipers and went to SS lines. Big difference.  BTW - one other thing I noticed on mine was the lack of power boost after a few quick stops - turned out to be two problems.  One was the power boost check valve (6.99 at NAPA - or free from any other GM vehicle) which was leaking and then my 79 had a brake vacuum "filter" which acts like a vacuum restrictor.  You don't need it and so I tossed it in the trash.  Brakes worked fine after that.  It is my understanding from a GM specialist that a number of late 70s GM cars had these filter/restrictors to assist in keeping the vacuum level up in the intake manifold.  In any case, the car runs great without it, and the brakes work like they should. 


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C3: 1979 Corvette Coupe, Auto, L-48, Red/Doeskin (my wife's fave);
C4s: 1986 C4 coupe (SCCA road race car), satin black, 4+3, Z51 package, L-98;  & 1993 C4 coupe, white, 6-speed, LT-1.
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1977 Proportioning Valve (8/12)
 11/9/07 10:25am
neuroclast
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Charleston AFB, SC - USA

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1979 Cream Beige Coupe w/383 & 700R4


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[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]I have to say, my sequence for bleeding is not the same as Josh's...the normal procedure is:
RR-LR-RF-LF...you want to bleed the furtherest caliper from the master first. This lessens the chance of having trapped air in the crossover line, that may wind up just floating from one side to the other, and never really getting out.[/QUOTE]
 
Ah. See I got my bleed order from another poster here who said the service manual said the rd, rp, fd, fp order. I'd probably listen to Adams', he knows a lot more about these things than I do :P
 
[QUOTE=sfindlan]my 79 had a brake vacuum "filter" which acts like a vacuum restrictor.  You don't need it and so I tossed it in the trash.  Brakes worked fine after that.  It is my understanding from a GM specialist that a number of late 70s GM cars had these filter/restrictors to assist in keeping the vacuum level up in the intake manifold.  In any case, the car runs great without it, and the brakes work like they should.  [/QUOTE]
 
Hrm, what's this filter look like? I have a 79 as well and would like to know if it can improve pedal feel!
defsegx2007-11-09 10:28:00
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1977 Proportioning Valve (9/12)
 11/9/07 11:06am
Adams' AppleLifetime Member
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Duncanville, TX - USA

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#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas


Joined: 11/8/2003
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[QUOTE=defsegx]Ah. See I got my bleed order from another poster here who said the service manual said the rd, rp, fd, fp order. I'd probably listen to Adams', he knows a lot more about these things than I do [/QUOTE]

Well now...I don't know about that...

Perhaps the person that posted the other method is from Australia, or somewhere else that drives on the wrong side of the roads...

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    

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1977 Proportioning Valve (10/12)
 11/9/07 2:58pm
79rebuild
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Yelm, WA - USA

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1979 L82 4 speed Scat 383 crank 190 cc Procomp Aluminum Heads 202 160 stainless valves GM Powder metal rods Speedpro H860CP Hypereutectic pistons 280 cam hydralic HEI Pro comp 1.6 roller rockers Mighty Demon 750 Sanderson CC1AP Hedders.


Joined: 7/12/2007
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[QUOTE=sfindlan]I just replaced all 4 calipers and went to SS lines. Big difference.[/QUOTE] 
 
Did you replace the rubber with SS and the hard lines too? I am looking at my making or buying new hard lines for mine. Since I got 4 new calipers I'm a little concerned about using the old hard lines as they aint too pretty. 
79rebuild2007-11-09 15:00:35
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1977 Proportioning Valve (11/12)
 11/12/07 5:41pm
sfindlan
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Badin Lake, NC - USA

Vette(s):
1979 Red L-48 Corvette with Doeskin interior, 3-speed automatic, 3.55 rear; 1986 L-98 Coupe, 4+3 Manual - Satin Black and Purple (SCCA TT/Hillclimb Car); 1993 White LT-1 Coupe, Black Interior, 6-speed


Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 101

yup - replaced the rubber with SS. The primary hard lines were in good shape, but I may replace with SS just for appearance - but the steel ones are still good.  It really helped the feel to go with SS flex lines instead of rubber and it gives you a lot of confidence not having 30 year old rubber holding your brake system together.

______________
C3: 1979 Corvette Coupe, Auto, L-48, Red/Doeskin (my wife's fave);
C4s: 1986 C4 coupe (SCCA road race car), satin black, 4+3, Z51 package, L-98;  & 1993 C4 coupe, white, 6-speed, LT-1.
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1977 Proportioning Valve (12/12)
 11/12/07 6:39pm
kstyerLifetime Member
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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

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1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!


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The filter that was in the vacuum line does not affect the brake operation at all if it's working properly.
 
It is there as a moisture filter.   In the 70's GM found moisture was getting through the vacuum line and into the power booster.   The moisture would freeze on a cold day, and the driver would come out and step on the pedal and the pedal would not move.   After the car ran awhile, the heat from the engine would warm the booster, melt the ice, and the brakes would work again.
 
I installed a LOT of them as a mfg recall.   Granted, if they went bad or clogged it really made the brake operation suffer.
 
The rough point for bleeding si the line to the right rear, where it crosses the back of the frame.    The line goes up, and back down, and creates an air pocket.   It can make you nuts getting it out.   Proper bleeding or a power bleeder will cure the problem.    Follow Joels procedure.
 
If you do pump the brakes, pump gently.  A solid thump causes the air bubbles to break up into tiny bubbles, and then they won't come out until they recollect and form larger bubbles again.
kstyer2007-11-12 18:39:56
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