Ok my friend and I are having some disputes about burnouts. Weather the car is FWD, or RWD it doesn’t matter. But we both agree that a burnout is abusing your car, and it puts wear and tear on the parts. He says that after the first burnout you will break the car some how. I say that after 1 minute solid not in motion burnout you will probably chip some teeth on the flywheel, overheat the tranny... (Other than that you are cool) if you are power-sliding, driving, and burning out it wont matter b/c the tranny is still in motion. Example: http://fattyslims.com/mirrors/videos/MISC/burnout.avi
A high performance car however can take such abuse and I think he’s not seeing this. If you do one burnout for under a minute like 20 seconds or 30 or 40 it puts abuse on the car yes but it won’t necessarily break it, he thinks it will. He’s not seeing the fact that cars can do burnouts.

FWD burnout….
http://fattyslims.com/mirrors/videos/MISC/Integraburnoutcompressed.wmv

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-LOUIE

Yes, burnouts are hell on any car. It will overheat a automatic transmission in no time. If the driveline is strong enough for the motor, then you wont break anything like a driveshaft or u-joints. You will fry tires quickly. If you think about it, A Burnout is a stupid and horrible thing to do to your car. But then again so is drag racing or racing period. But it sure is fun for some people, And thats why we do it.
P.S. did you see the 1977 vette burnout and doing doughnuts, I posted in the other thread? Thats alot cooler than that integra!

|UPDATED|11/10/2004 4:02:41 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

I spose now's a good time to bring up an interesting issue. I can't do burnouts. i shift it into first, push the brake in a bit, and floor the pedal...and the rear wheels aren't spinning fast enough to do a burnout...I think the max that hit like that is 1500-2000 RPM, not sure why. it worked once before, the same way I'm doing it now. also, I'm running my 0-60 in about 9.4 seconds...out of the factory for the 77 vette was 6.8 seconds. not sure if I'm just doing something wrong or my engine's running less horsepower...but I can't think what'd be wrong with it, other than borehole being slightly plugged so that the full amount of oil isn't getting to that lifter.

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Mike

My old Stingray...sure do miss it:


(click image to see a bigger version)

Food for thought............
Just the fact that a car exists is wear and tear, if it just sits, seals, gaskets dry out. Fuel goes bad, tires get flat spots or start cracking.
If you drive it normally, you still inflict different types of wear requiring some level of maintenance.
If you do burnouts, expect accelerated wear on tires and driveline components, as long as you are aware of this and prepared to pay for the fun, why not roast 'em once in a while?
We buy and build performance cars, let them perform, or just go get a YUGO that WONTGO!!!!!!!!!!!!

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That is what the
http://fattyslims.com/mirrors/videos/MISC/burnout.avi
video is, the one of that guy in the post u made Tummar. However i said it was hell for any car, old cars can take it, but you should know your car before you do anything like that.

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-LOUIE

Yes absolutly! I cant get your link to work for me so I didnt know that was it. LoL! The problem is my computer I think, it does that to me alot. Call me Tom. BTW

|UPDATED|11/10/2004 4:35:05 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Tom, any ideas as to why I can't get the wheels spinning fast enough for a burnout? or why I'm running my 0-60 in 9.4 instead of the 6.8 it's sposed to be? or was 6.8 the L82 engine.

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Mike

My old Stingray...sure do miss it:


(click image to see a bigger version)

Have you ever done a compression check on your motor? Sounds like serious power loss. You motor might be just worn out or you have a poorly adjusted or worn out carb or ignition. With my old motor, I could hardly get the tires to squeak. It was stock with alot of miles and had a 3.08 and a clogged exhaust system.

|UPDATED|11/10/2004 5:09:04 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

I've got 3.08s...like I said, there's that borehole that's not letting the full amount of oil through...so it makes that clicking sound...but I wouldn't think it'd result in that much loss of power. it doesn't start too easily, gotta hold the ignition in for a few seconds and pump the pedal once or twice sometimes, there's been some shorts in the electrical system...but it doesn't seem like it should do what it's doing. lesse...timeline...got the vette, fixed up the exhaust and harmonic balancer and starter, put roller rockers in it...had it straightpiped. friend and I went to a parking lot and videotaped some nice burnouts. short in the system, didn't start or even turn over, next day it was fine. I try to do a burnout for a picture for the 05 calendar, can't do it. few weeks later, exhaust plug blows off when I was tryin to do a 0-60, manually shifting, see what my time was. rapidfire superclicks each time I pushed the pedal in, there's prolly a post on here about it. we found the problem, bought a plug, screwed it back in, that problem solved. electrical system shorts again, vette won't start or even turn over again, I get it towed into the shop while the wire is still shorting, we fix it. few days later, try to do a burnout for fun...again, still can't get the tires spinning fast enough. not sure what my 0-60 time is..prolly a little less, I took the spare tire and the casing that holds it up off of the back...but I'm guessing it's still above 9 seconds, which is over 2 seconds off...and the fact that I can't do burnouts. any ideas?

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Mike

My old Stingray...sure do miss it:


(click image to see a bigger version)

Back in 1970 I ran a flathead dragster with a couple of friends and the hot thing to do at the time was bleach burnouts!To heat the tires.
Clorox is real slippery
If you want to impress your friends than pour down a couple of puddles of bleach and burn through them!
Rember that the half shafts don't break when the tires are spinning,they break when the tires hook up.
Steve

I still say take your plugs out to do a compression test, while there out look at how each plug looks and keep track of what cylinder they came out of. In the compression test look for consistency of pressures in each cylinder. If any of your lifters are collasped on the intake side you should have weak or no compression. Also you might have lost compression from worn rings in your pistons. Once you determine if you have a healthy engine then look at that ignition system. Check plugs, wires, coil, good charge to the coil, check your engines timing. Check if the vacuum advance is working.

|UPDATED|11/10/2004 8:41:04 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

I very seriously doubt that the lifters not oiling at
100% would make this difference.

I would be much more likely to belive that the 0-60 time advertised was with an optional rear end, not a 3.08...

new77guy said: I say that after 1 minute solid not in motion burnout you will probably chip some teeth on the flywheel, overheat the tranny... (Other than that you are cool) if you are power-sliding, driving, and burning out it wont matter b/c the tranny is still in motion.

this part makes no sense..

even if you are in a motionless burnout.. (which I used to do by sitting through red-lights)

the transmission is still spinning and has less load on it than if you floored it up a hill with good traction.

you arent going to break any teeth on the flywheel as hopefully you arent engaging the starter during your motionless burnout. The teeth of the flywheel do nothing once the car is started.

the worst wear is on the tires.. the six U-joints on your car are the weakest links.. you dont want one of these to come apart..

as for the 1st burnout being ok but all subsequent ones breaking something..

no way.. With the 429 SCJ Galaxie I used to make smokescreens during redlights.. I never had a single problem with the driveline. There is always a risk something will break.. whether it is a new car, old car, stock, rodded, etc.

no guts.. no glory..

Sounds like you were scaring the little old ladys sitting next to you at the lights! Great FUN!

No Ben, engaging the starter during a burn out gives you a couple extra ft lbs of torque so you can lay more rubber down. You didnt know this...Jeeze. Now I bet your gonna say that huge whale tail spoilers on front wheel drive street cars are no good or that fart can mufflers don't help performance. LOL

|UPDATED|11/10/2004 11:56:13 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Tumarr said: Sounds like you were scaring the little old ladys sitting next to you at the lights! Great FUN! No Ben, engaging the starter during a burn out gives you a couple extra ft lbs of torque so you can lay more rubber down. You didnt know this...Jeeze. Now I bet your gonna say that huge whale tail spoilers on front wheel drive street cars are no good or that fart can mufflers don't help performance. LOL

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind engaging the starter (unless it's in the left handed screwdriver category)
The high pitched whine of a fart can just reminds me of a spoiled kid throwing a tantrum WHAAAAAAAH!

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I'm with Ben on this one. The lifter is not really going to make that big of a difference

Once the tires are spinning, there is not much torque transferred to the ground as compaired to a full throttle application without spinning, so there is fact less force on the car once they are spinning.

Starting them spinning is another thing. You must overcome the traction to start with. IF this is done gradually, it's not a big problem, but there is maximum strain on the drive line and suspension at this point just as the tires start to break loose. If you drop the clutch or bang it into gear, the shock can be very high, and do some serious damage.

So how you do the burn out makes a difference in the stress and wear applied.

Next is the rotating factor. With an open rear end the speed difference between axles is very excessive, and the spider gears in the rear diff will likely fail if the burn out is continued for any period of time. Granted a posi traction eliminates this due to the fact that both sides spin at the same speed.

The transmission and ring and pinion, as well as the u-joints don't care if the car is sitting still spinning the tires at 60 mph, or going down the road at 60 mph. If the torque applies is the same, it does not make any difference. At Wide Open Throttle, you could have more torque while moving than when doing a burn out due to loss of traction at the tires. Spinning tires don't grip.

So to wrap up. How you start the burn out makes a huge difference in wear and stress, and in what breaks. This is where you do the damage.
Maintaining a burnout won't hurt any more than full throttle acelleration, except for the tires and brakes. These are slipping and frying, with severe wear.

Bottom line, the faster you go, the more is cost. But it's fun.

Darn Ken! I was reeally waiting on yours and Ben's take on the added hosepower from the starter!

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Some really good info here. I think this closed the subject between my freiend and I. Just one question. If I am going to be getting the MSD 6AL Ignition, Billit MSD Distrib, and the MSD blaster SS coil, should I get the
41384 1969-82 Power Master Chrome 140 Amp Alternator $199.99 EA.
A4851 1969-82 Power Master Chrome 63 Amp Alternator $119.99 EA.
A5853 1969-82 Power Master Chrome 85 Amp Alternator
$129.99 EA. ?

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-LOUIE

new77guy said: Some really good info here. I think this closed the subject between my freiend and I. Just one question. If I am going to be getting the MSD 6AL Ignition, Billit MSD Distrib, and the MSD blaster SS coil, should I get the 41384 1969-82 Power Master Chrome 140 Amp Alternator $199.99 EA. A4851 1969-82 Power Master Chrome 63 Amp Alternator $119.99 EA. A5853 1969-82 Power Master Chrome 85 Amp Alternator $129.99 EA. ?

the msd system isnt going to make a huge difference in current draw..

I run mine with a stock alternator..

Well Dave, with my tongue firmly in my cheek, here goes

The extra torque from the started is only effective when a high torque starter is used. The older larger starter motors have a greater mass and greater speed at the outside of the rotor assy, therfore greater stress is placed on the starter bearings creating extra drag at anything over 1500 rpm, negating the advantage. A high torque starter helps to overcome this. The smaller motor has less drag at high speeds. But the power required to operate the starter is another issue. Due to the fact that the alternator is trying to keep up with the demand, the extra alternator load on the engine negates the added torque from the starter. You now have a break even effect. The negative come into place from the extra heat generated by both the starter and the alternator, and alternator belt. This reduced cooling system performance, allowing the engine to run hotter, thus reducing total Horsepower, and causing the car to run slower. Besides the noise from the starter makes it sound like a ricer. Very annoying.


How's that for a load of crap?

|UPDATED|11/11/2004 5:31:39 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

I knew I could count on ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Excellent! Does this effect the muffler bearings in any way?

Of course. That extra heat dries out the muffler bearing grease. That prevents the exhaust from moving when the engine is under load, With out the torque applied to the motor mounts, but instead throught the stuck exhaust system with dry bearings, the torque won't get to the rear wheels, and further slowes the car down.

Woo, I hope no one believes this.

muahahaha....

Dude....

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-LOUIE

kstyer said: Woo, I hope no one believes this.

now you tell me! printed out this tread and took it with me to NAPA looking for some muffler bearing grease. didin't know if general purpose grease would hold up to the heat. the guy at NAPA asked to make a copy of the thread then sent me to Advance because they were fresh out of bearing grease.
the guy behind the counter at Advance just smiled and told me to go to Autozone since he doesn't carry it.
the guy behind the counter at Autozone said that they only sell muffler bearing grease at their Cuyahoga Falls store. hey Ken, isn't that where you work?

Yep, I have the special muffler bearing grease in a tub behind the counter. You need to ask for Joe, and use the password "Slimey"
It's not just for breakfast anymore!

you guys are to much i cant hardly type this im laughing so hard ,thanks for making my day better and as for that motor problem of not running what she ran from the factory id say its time to freshen her up !!!

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rockinron001|IMG|http://home.earthlink.net/~oneshot_0/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/rons77.jpg |/IMG|

lets just say burnouts are fun and not get to technical,
cuz you are really spoiling my fun with all that tech stuff to think about as I inhale burning rubber

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Joe

You should only be carefull to inhale the burning rubber from your own tires. Second hand smoke has been proven to be bad for your health. The only option? WIN! Go Faster than the other guy!

|UPDATED|11/19/2004 7:40:40 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

I've been waiting for someone to say a high torque starter was the only way a rice burner could get off the line!

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Yep, I have the special muffler bearing grease in a tub behind the counter. You need to ask for Joe, and use the password "Slimey"
It's not just for breakfast anymore!

Hey Ken, I need some of the muffler grease. I can't get my 80 to burn out anymore. I smoked the tires down to the nub....the retreads I put on them work great, but I can't get them to stay on when I lite er up. I think the grease is just what I need. Also, I think I finally found the zirk for the muffler bearings. It is mounted right next to where the engineers hid the wiper control module! Also, I found the reservoir for the clorox. Mine was empty so I filled er up. Works great now. Smoke em if you got em!



|UPDATED|11/20/2004 12:13:05 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|


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|IMG|/member_uploads/6601_6700/6620/Vette018.JPG|/IMG|

All good repairs. Excellent.

But instead of muffler bearing grease, try antitransmission fluid. By using antitransmission (instead of transmission) fluid, you don't transfer the traction from the tire to the ground. The lack of transmission causes the tires to spin, resulting in a burn out! For a Corvette I recommend AntiDextron II. Just add it to the Clorex jug.

You guys are crazy. I can't stop laughing. Like the time we pissed under the tires of my buddies Dodge Van back in the 70's to get them to light up......stand clear!!

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Bruce
72 Coupe L48 4sp
Custom Blue/Silver/Pearl

(Click for a larger pic)

As a transmission guy, I must make you aware of the ban on "Antitransmission fluid". It has been outlawed in the U.S. by the Gov. because of pending littigation involving loss of control issues. It seems the Antitransmission fluid is being soaked up into the tire treads,transfering through the axles into the diff., and from the diff. travelling up the driveshaft into the trans, where the problem rears it's ugly head. The antitransmission properties of this fluid eat away at the fasteners for the trans, allowing the trans to fall out of the vehicle,whereby the driver drives over the trans,rupturing the tires, and losing control of the vehicle. I must say please use with caution!!!!

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

"GARAGE ART!" Adam's Apple, I like that, can I use it? Kinda justifies it!
Mike
PS, is there an anti trans lube for a manual?

Actualy, it is (was) a well known secret in the trans business for many,many years. Antitransmission fluid is an additive that we put in every unit. It absolutely guarantees that the trans will ONLY last for the warranty period. I like to call it "Job security"!! Sometimes the installers put a little too much in, and I have to do repairs under warranty, and sometimes they forget to put in any, and the thing lasts forever!! I NEVER put it in my own vehicles, or those of my friends.(Relatives are a diff. matter)!!!

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Gee, do you think that rear end additive that is required as actually an anti additive?? Hmmmm...
Mike

make sure you replace the flux capacitor also.. using a worn FC could cause unreliable results when you hit 88 mph

Hey! Flux Caps, Antitrans Fluid and Special Muffler Bearing Grease only came standard on 83's????

You guys are nuts.

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Bruce
72 Coupe L48 4sp
Custom Blue/Silver/Pearl

(Click for a larger pic)

ummmm, how about just pushing the gas pedal down hard

blu72 said: Hey! Flux Caps, Antitrans Fluid and Special Muffler Bearing Grease only came standard on 83's???? You guys are nuts.

I think that's mostly because the '83 was a major transition year. Wasn't it the first with a "ghost" paint?
Don't let Flux caps get you down, I've found that if you reorient the polarity it minimizes the fluxation and you can get about 140 mph.

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But only if the tail light push rod is in phase with the heramostat. Other wise the hemulator stops the flux capacitors from even reaching 88.

And if you do use the antitransmission fluid, just be sure to go fast enough so it can't migrate forward.