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Topic: Braking problems

in Forum: C3 Handling Components

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Braking problems (1/20)
10/30/07 5:09am

fowler12
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Toledo, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1977 auto.L48 383 stroker

Joined: 2/22/2007
Posts: 175

I have a 77 and recently noticed that my brake pedal has gone all the way to the floor with little braking ability. Also, my brake light has come on in the dash. The harder I apply the brake, the harder the wheels turn to the lefton it's own. I am unsure of what is going on, could this also be an issue with my power steering? Thank you to all for your feedback with this problem, I really appreciate it!

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Braking problems (2/20)
10/30/07 5:15am

Adams' Apple

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Duncanville, TX - USA

Vette(s):
#1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/ Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight" #2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas

Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 20208

You apparently only have brakes on the left front wheel...not a good thing!

Pedal going to the floor would be due to a leak in the system, whether external(hose/caliper leaks), or internal(master cyl bleed-by). If the master cyl. is full of fluid, then you need to replace/rebuild the master. If it is low/empty on one or both sides, you have a leak, probably at the calipers.
I don't think the problem will be anything to do with the steering system..

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Braking problems (3/20)
10/30/07 5:49am

OlrustysGhost
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Spotsylvania, VA - USA

Vette(s):
1977 Silver Coupe

Joined: 1/20/2007
Posts: 293

Yup. I had a hard time getting my brakes to do the right thing. It took a New Master cylinder, new rear lines, and calipers all around. I couldn't see a leak, but the calipers were getting air when I applied the brake and let off.

Hope this helps.

Braking problems (4/20)
10/30/07 5:53am

Ghengis Jon
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Jacksonville, FL - USA

Vette(s):
1979 Coupe

Joined: 8/27/2007
Posts: 32

Don't forget to check the brake lines. Mine had to be repleced because of "old age". That alone was a big contributor to pulling left.

Braking problems (5/20)
10/30/07 7:22am

fowler12
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Toledo, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1977 auto.L48 383 stroker

Joined: 2/22/2007
Posts: 175

Thank you all for the help...i will be sure to check these things out! I have not noticed any brake fluid leaking on the floor where it is parked but will take a better look, thanks again!

Braking problems (6/20)
10/30/07 8:51am

6880Mike
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Horse Cave, KY - USA

Vette(s):
1968 convertible; 1980 L-82

Joined: 10/22/2007
Posts: 488

Check rotor run out while you're doing the R&R. If run out is out of whack, the calipers can draw air into the system.

Braking problems (7/20)
10/30/07 8:53am

dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

Vette(s):
2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6841

I have had this problem several times in the last three years.

Pulling to one side is definitely a problem.

Mine was a frozen caliper. Replaced both last year.

Also replaced the master cylinder due to internal leak.

Make sure the rotors don't have more than .003" runout. More than that will cause pumping air into the pistons.

Make sure the system gets thoroghly bled, starting with the wheel farthest from the master cylinder and working toward the closest.

If you have to replace components, buy quality. This is not an area to be frugal.

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Braking problems (8/20)
10/30/07 4:03pm

79rebuild
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Yelm, WA - USA

Vette(s):
1979 L82 4 speed Scat 383 crank 190 cc Procomp Aluminum Heads 202 160 stainless valves GM Powder metal rods Speedpro H860CP Hypereutectic pistons 280 cam hydralic HEI Pro comp 1.6 roller rockers Mighty Demon 750 Sanderson CC1AP Hedders.

Joined: 7/12/2007
Posts: 356

Yep just bought 4 new calipers, it's kind of hard to be frugal! LOL Some of the things I noticed on mine were stuck pistons on the front, the rear calipers were full of goo never beld correctly, very uneven brake pad wear between the calipers, looks like one of the rear calipers was doing most of the work. I had all my rotors turned. Some of my calipers were aftermarket sleeved with lip seals and some were stock, only one rear caliper was a rebuild candidate. My local Vette shop accepted my cores Clap , most places I found won't give a credit for sleeved cores and that was my biggest obstacle. So I got four new lonestar SS O-ring calipers for 400 bucks and they are the stamped Delco Mor's. I am shopping around for SS lines and new pads right now.

Braking problems (9/20)
11/2/07 5:21am

fowler12
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Toledo, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1977 auto.L48 383 stroker

Joined: 2/22/2007
Posts: 175

I found that the master cylinder was low on both sides. This appears to imply that I have a leak at the calipers as Adam suggested. What do I need to do now with the calipers? Can they be fixed or do they need to be replaced. Also, what exactly do you mean when you say "check the rotor run" and "it may be out of whack". I do not fully understand this. Thanks for your time and help!

Braking problems (10/20)
11/2/07 9:32am

Someone smarter than me will hopefully correct this if I'm wrong. I'm doing my brakes now and this is what I've learned so far. Calipers can be rebuilt if the cylider walls are not corroded. You have to break them down and inspect them, it's real easy. You want your rotors to have uniform straight surface as they spin where they make contact with the pads, if they have too much runout (warped) it will pulsate the caliper pistons causing air to be drawn into the system through the lip seals, I just learned that myself Wink Also it will cause stress on your wheel bearings, cause noise when braking, pulsating brake pedal, and uneven pad wear. I always let a shop mess with my rotors, it's fairly cheap about 5-10 bucks per rotor, they will turn them so they are true, basically they put them on a lathe and resurface them. Most rotors can be truned unless they are really warped or don't have enough thickness on them left. After that I throw them back on the spindle with new bearings and then check with a dial gauge if you still got probelms it's time to take a closer look at the spindle.

Braking problems (11/20)
11/2/07 9:38am

dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

Vette(s):
2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6841

79rebuild is right on.

Nice explaination.

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Braking problems (12/20)
11/2/07 10:01am

fowler12
Former Member
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Toledo, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1977 auto.L48 383 stroker

Joined: 2/22/2007
Posts: 175

Great...thanks for the help

Braking problems (13/20)
11/11/07 2:02pm

dwright
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Victor, NY - USA

Vette(s):
2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6841

My reservoir was low on both sides also.

The brake light was coming on and staying on.

The brake pedal was low and mushy.

I filled the reservoir and pumped the brakes.

When the brake pedal was pushed, the brake light came on and then off.

Now, here is the real strange part.

When the brake light came on, the light for the radio also came on. Confused

AND, there was a buzzing noise!!! Wacko

Note, engine was idling at the time, I think.

The radio was off.

I may need to go out and check that again.

Is there a connection between the brake light and the radio light?

Is there a safety buzzer to tell you your brakes are low?

Am I loosing it? Wacko

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Braking problems (14/20)
11/11/07 2:43pm

Redwingvette

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Waterford, MI - USA

Vette(s):
1973 Red coupe

Joined: 9/13/2002
Posts: 1748

The connection would only be a ground. Could be a bad connection and causing the power to back feed through any number of places. Try running a ground wire from the battery to the gage cluster and see if that fixes anything. If it does, then you know it is a faulty ground and can start tracing them.

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73 coupe L48, Flat-top pistons, Performer RPM Heads, Crane Cam and roller rockers, Holley 650 vac sec. Performer intake,
3.55 gear BTO 200-4R trans,
Leather seats, Seatbelt Plus 3point seatbelts, Pioneer CD player
Magnaflow Exhuast System

Dewitt radiator and dual electric fans

Borgeson Steering box

Braking problems (15/20)
11/11/07 7:24pm

dwright
Former Member
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Victor, NY - USA

Vette(s):
2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6841

Dang, I thought I had the optional "Flashing radio and buzzer safety warning- your brakes ain't working". LOL

I suppose to reach the gage cluster I'll have to stick a probe under the steering column while pushing the brake pedal with my hand and looking at the radio light. I may need an assistant for this one. Unhappy

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Braking problems (16/20)
11/11/07 7:45pm

Adams' Apple

Brian is right...sounds like a grounding issue. But...I would solve the brake problem first. That way, the brake light won't come on, which means the radio light won't come on, and the buzzing won't be there.
Sometimes, just unplugging/reconnecting the cluster will "fix" some problems like this, as far as the light show/buzzing is concerned. A little bit of corrosion on one of the terminals, especially on a ground, can wreak havoc on the cluster functions.

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Braking problems (17/20)
11/11/07 8:07pm

kstyer

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CUYAHOGA FALLS, OH - USA

Vette(s):
1975 C3 Red, T-Tops, Black Interior. All I need is time and money! Getting there!

Joined: 12/2/2003
Posts: 6424

Try bleeding the brakes first. Gravity bleeding is a good option, but it does not always do the job. Use a pressure bleeder or a assistant to pump the brake pedal.

Granted if there is air in the system, it still needs to be fixed. Bleeding first may just help you to find the problem. All of the above is good advice.

If you try to rebuild the calipers, make sure the bores in the calipers are clean and smooth, but a small pit or scratch won't hurt. The sealing surface is not the bore, but the piston surface. These need to be about perfect on the surface where the seal rubs. The bore section is critical where the seal sits into the groove.

So if you use a cylinder hone to clean up the caliper, and new pistons if necessary, the will be in good shape.

Of course you can get lifetime warranty rebuilt stainless lined calipers from AutoZone for less that $70 each. That's what is on my cars. They are not o-ring seal, but work well. And if they fail they cost nothing in parts for replacement. Some other discount supply auto parts may have similar deals. Much cheaper than the Corvette supply houses.

Braking problems (18/20)
11/12/07 10:05am

dwright
Former Member
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Victor, NY - USA

Vette(s):
2004 Commemorative Edition Coupe, Auto w/HUD. 13K miles in 2015. Sold 1982 Red Coupe

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 6841

I think I will invest in a pressure bleeder.

Unless NAPA or AutoZone or one of them places rents them.

First I need to take the wheels off and see if any of the pistons or calipers are leaking.

I think I detected a leak from the main reservoir yesterday, when I was changing my lower speedo cable. Angry

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Braking problems (19/20)
11/12/07 6:01pm

kstyer

Sometimes a master cylinder will leak out of the back, through the seal where the rod comes out and goes to the brake pedal. With manual brakes you can see fluid on the inside of the firewall. With power brakes loosen the bolts between the master cylinder and the brake booster, and you can see fluid there. Just one more possibility.

Braking problems (20/20)
11/12/07 10:08pm

Gale Banks 80

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Vette(s):
1980 with a Banks Twin Turbo 1969 Convert Big Block 1996 Grand Sport Convert

Joined: 9/8/2005
Posts: 241

If You have a Caliper with a Scored or Rusted Bore it can still be Rebuilt. It will need a Stainless Sleave installed. At this point it will just become a Core for for an exchange with one of the many Corvette Vendors. I'd Recomend Vette Brakes and Products. Most Warped Rotors are Warped when the are Turned in a Brake Lathe. A lot of People do not recomend Turning Brake Rotors exspecialy C3 Vettes. If the Rotor is so bad it needs to be Turned then the Scape them. However if the Rotor is not Warped and or Groved just Use it again. Most Brake Shops always Turn Rotors because it eliminates Brake Squile and don't want Custormers returning to say the new Brake Job makes Noise. What makes the Noise is the Glaze on the Rotors won't let the New Pads Break in. If You Sand the Rotors and remove the Glaze Your doing the same thing. Just a DA Sander will work fine.

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