350 with Edelbrock heads,cam,intake, and carb. (Performer series)

yes...   but just adjusting initial advance high as you can without pinging isnt enough to get the most out of it

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Got it, Thank you...Didn't realize this subject was so greatly debated and explored here. I'll try the vacume method and then verify and report the timing light results.

gramps ???

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No No No, I thought you said from the other related thread that you learned this way of tuning from your Gramps. I appericiate the advise and tried it out. Got H U G E Power increase over setting timing by the light. Took her out for a test ride and Wowser Go Go Gadget it was fast, But then (BUTT) It was a little weary of wanting to start, so I backed her off just enough to make it "Startable" and it runs fine. Later I found a slight stumbly miss which was corrected by resetting the Spals programable to allow a little more heat on the heads. Everything is well now, although I believe a Accel Super Coil is in the near future to ignite the new plat plugs.

Got yer money's worth already, eh, JB?

Glad ya got it runnin better. I've used "Gramp's" method too, and it absolutely werks, every time. I have to agree with Ben...timing lights are only good for seeing where it is once you get it right!!

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

No Question about getting my moneys worth Joel, Best ten bones I have ever spent.

OK, Her I go again. Can't leave well enough alone and all. LOL

I have advanced the Mallory HEI to Max vacume at idle (1000 RPM)= 16 PSI and took her out for a ride. Ran FANTASTIC,
 Would not start at all though, so I backed off the timing to 13 PSI at idle until I could fire her up. Readjusted the carb and all was well until.....

 How can I get the full power and the ability to turn the engine over too? I set the timing with a gauge with the vac advance blocked off. Can I alter the vacume advance to kick in around 2500-300 RPM? or am I missing something. Even thought maybe the starter was week (New Starter though) New Battery....Arrrrgggg. I really want it to run like it did at 16 PSI (set at idle) No Pings, No Miss, just F A S T .....Smokin Fast.... At 13 PSI It is not the same......

Thank you for your patience here. I really did look for the other thread and seem to not be able to find it.

Anyone? Ideas?
JB

Sounds like you're gonna have to do some changes to the mechanical advance, most likely a spring change. This will get you the full advance that you need to run "fantastic"(is that a scientific term?), and still be able to start when hot. The problem's gonna be determining what spring/weight set-up is gonna be the best all around.
The springs/weights on the advance mechanism work more from rpm changes; vac. advance is more closely related to engine load.
Try this...stay with me now...
Disconnect the vac. from the dist. Then adjust the timing until the car runs well, reguardless of hard starting. Then, check the timing with a light, and make note of that setting.
Now, reconnect the vac. to the dist., and set the timing(with the light) to the same setting you got from the above step. Drive again and see how it werks out. This should give you the same results as with the vac. unhooked, but it should start ok. If it doesn't run as well this way, I would think a spring change would be needed.

You also need to verify the vac. advance can will hold vac., and will move the advance plate thru it's full range, with a vac. pump. Not all advance cans will hold vac. for a long time...some are "vented", for lack of a better werd. It should still be able to move the plate, and hold it for several seconds before slowly bleeding off.

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Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
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"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Thanks Joel, I'll give it a shot after work today.

Okay - while we are talking about timing.  My engine builder (he builds drag cars)  put three marks on my harmonic balancer for timing.  He marked the line that is used to set timing and then a ways down is a mark that says 30 and further down is a mark that says 40.  What do those mean. The car runs fine but as I read this thread it sounds as though some fine tuning could be done for better performance.  Any help or ideas?

Some builders will mark the balancer to make it easier to set the timing at certain rpms. Most pro racers have the balancer marked all the way around to help with "degree-ing" the cam. Matter of fact, most pro type balancers are marked that way to start with.(Fluidamper, etc.)
For instance, if you wanted 30deg. advance @ 3000rpm, then you would simply set the engine rpm to 3000, and look at the timing mark(30deg), and set that mark(30deg) on the "zero" on the timing tab. I have an advancable timing light, and it does basically the same thing, but it uses electronics to do it. If I want 30deg @ 3000rpm, I just set the rpm, and "dial in" 30deg on the light, and then line up the "0" on the balancer. Does the same thing, with less fuss.

Another trick some engine builders will do, is mark the balancer for true TDC. This involves using a piston stop, and turning the engine by hand until it hits the stop. Mark the balancer there, and then turn the engine the other direction until it hits the stop there, and mark the balancer. The exact center distance between the two marks you just made will be "true" TDC, as seen on the balancer. Then, the balancer is marked at that center distance, to be used as TDC when timing the engine. This eliminates any balancer defects, as far as timing marks go.
Does this make any sense at all?!

______________

Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

It does.  So I should check my timing at idle, 3000 and 4000 rpm to see if my vac advance is working properly.   Should these three marks all hit the same spot when timing at the set RPM?

Well, I couldn't tell you WHY he marked the balancer like that. In theory, tho, if you wanted 30deg. advance @ 3000rpm, then the 30deg. mark would line up with the "0" on the timing tab @ 3000rpm. By "0", I mean the TDC position on the timing tab. Most of them are a large "V" shape notch, and are marked as "0".
The total advance, and what RPM it comes in at will vary according to the engine builder's preference, or what actually works best for each engine/vehicle/driver combo. There really is no one set way to do it, or one carved in stone spec. The only real way to get it done properly, for the most usable HP, is on a chassis dyno. Most of us do not have access to one o dem bad boys, so...we just play it by ear!

______________

Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56    
My Link


(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

yes..  a springs change is pretty much a requirement to set the timing perfect..

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[QUOTE=Adams' Apple]Some builders will mark the balancer to make it easier to set the timing at certain rpms. Most pro racers have the balancer marked all the way around to help with "degree-ing" the cam. Matter of fact, most pro type balancers are marked that way to start with.(Fluidamper, etc.)
For instance, if you wanted 30deg. advance @ 3000rpm, then you would simply set the engine rpm to 3000, and look at the timing mark(30deg), and set that mark(30deg) on the "zero" on the timing tab. I have an advancable timing light, and it does basically the same thing, but it uses electronics to do it. If I want 30deg @ 3000rpm, I just set the rpm, and "dial in" 30deg on the light, and then line up the "0" on the balancer. Does the same thing, with less fuss.

Another trick some engine builders will do, is mark the balancer for true TDC. This involves using a piston stop, and turning the engine by hand until it hits the stop. Mark the balancer there, and then turn the engine the other direction until it hits the stop there, and mark the balancer. The exact center distance between the two marks you just made will be "true" TDC, as seen on the balancer. Then, the balancer is marked at that center distance, to be used as TDC when timing the engine. This eliminates any balancer defects, as far as timing marks go.
Does this make any sense at all?! [/QUOTE] cthulhu2006-10-02 12:37:20

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Thanks Joel!

[QUOTE=jbova2]OK, Her I go again. Can't leave well enough alone and all. LOL

I have advanced the Mallory HEI to Max vacume at idle (1000 RPM)= 16 PSI and took her out for a ride. Ran FANTASTIC,
 Would not start at all though, so I backed off the timing to 13 PSI at idle until I could fire her up. Readjusted the carb and all was well until.....

 How can I get the full power and the ability to turn the engine over too? I set the timing with a gauge with the vac advance blocked off. Can I alter the vacume advance to kick in around 2500-300 RPM? or am I missing something. Even thought maybe the starter was week (New Starter though) New Battery....Arrrrgggg. I really want it to run like it did at 16 PSI (set at idle) No Pings, No Miss, just F A S T .....Smokin Fast.... At 13 PSI It is not the same......

Thank you for your patience here. I really did look for the other thread and seem to not be able to find it.

Anyone? Ideas?
JB


[/QUOTE]

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Reading all the posts on the subject of timing the engine, I'm really confused now.

Good Morning, First I want to thank you and everyone who has contributed to this thread.